Transcript 0:00 For most immigrants who leave their country when they are much older, you know, the concept of home can be very interesting. You know, and something me and Marianne talk about in this episode is, you know how 0:15 at a certain age, when you leave at a certain age, you really never fully settle into your new country. I mean, you settle, you know, you do all the things you need to do. You somehow adopt the culture, 0:29 but you always feel like, and I've mentioned this in a lot of episodes, you always feel like you're just somewhere on the fringes and you're not fully there. Some people have the ability to do that though, I think. 0:38 But I, me, I can't. I don't, I don't know how to do it. Someone should teach me how to do it, you know? But that was also an interesting thing to explore. 0:45 You know, Israel Depashe says that, you know, Nigeria's always gonna hold a special place in her heart, and, um, same for me too. Nigeria is always gonna be special to me 'cause that's where I spent 0:58 30-plus years of my life before I left. Um, but we also explored-- She did something really interesting where she moved. She, after she, while she was on her maternity, she moved to Nigeria and spent five months there. 1:10 We talk about that a lot and about how her kid just had adjusted into the new coun-country, and her daughter, how her daughter adjusted, but how her daughter actually struggled when she moved back. 1:21 But yeah, enough of, enough of my voice. Let's, um, let's listen to her tell her story herself. [upbeat music] I'm gonna go straight into the deep end. Yeah. You've been here for how long? 1:39 You've been here for like, give or take, eight years now? Yeah, 2016 till date. Yeah, yeah. Eight years counting. Now, if you think about what you thought Canada was going to be 1:55 when you, when you stepped on the plane and started coming to Canada, and you think about what you've experienced so far, did it match? Were, were there, was there a disparity or is it like, 2:12 it was more than I thought it would be? Um, [chuckles] I think it's, it's, um, a yes and no for me. But I would say for me, it just goes back to why did I leave Nigeria, right? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. 2:27 What was my push factor out of Nigeria? So we, I would say I was part of the Japa crew who left when Japa was not a thing, right? Yeah. 2:38 It was more around you graduate from your bachelor's degree, get a good job, and then you're like, "Okay, maybe it's time for me to go do my master's degree," right? That sort of, um, trajectory. 2:50 And so for me, having worked in PricewaterhouseCoopers at that time in Lagos, Nigeria, you know, a lot of my counterparts then were either people who schooled abroad and then they were recruited and came back to Nigeria, or they were already on their way to go do their MBA and M-MSC. 3:09 So the company supported that kind of, um, career pathing for yourself. So I decided, well, maybe it's time for me to not just go further my studies, but also come to gain international work experience. 3:23 So the, I think the international work experience was more of it for me, because I was privileged to work in PWC at that time, and you would have folks from, you know, white guys from South Africa who would come in to do a collaboration or somebody from India who would come in. 3:39 So for me, I was like, "Okay, what, what would it look like to just work outside the shores of Nigeria and see how things are being done?" So for me, that was why I left. Yeah. 3:48 So it was more about, okay, I just wanna gain that global work experience, and coincidentally, coming through the student pathway was, um, the route that I dived into at that time. 4:02 And so came in, um, one year later, I believe. Yeah, nearly one year later, I got my first gig with TD Bank, you know, and it's been a wonderful experience since then. 4:13 So in retrospect, would I say that the journey has been worth it and my expectation has been met? I would say yes. You know, there's been a lot of ups and downs, which is what life is about. Yeah. 4:28 But generally speaking, the answer is yes. It's met my expectation for sure. Yeah. That's interesting. And, and you know, there's something that seems to be, 4:42 um, it's like an underlying thread in what you are saying, and I, I wonder, I'm just, and I'm assuming here, when you are leaving, do you somehow say to yourself, you are gonna come back to Nigeria to work? Yep. 4:55 Very, very... I was very sure, 100%, that I was gonna come back home, and that was because I had a good job, you know. Then I was like, "Okay, what do I, why do I have to leave Nigeria?" I had a good job. 5:11 I was growing where I was. I think I was almost at the path of becoming an assistant manager before I left, right? So life was good for me. I already had the network in PWC and things like that, right? 5:24 So when I was leaving, I was 100% sure I was gonna come back, especially because they gave me a two-year study leave, right? So my job- Oh. -was secure for me. Yeah. It was pretty much secure. 5:35 It's like, "Okay, go out there, do your thing, and if you ever wanna come back, just shoot us an email," right? That was the conversation I had with the country partner at that time before I left, so, you know. 5:46 But at the time I was graduating, Nigeria was Nigeria, you know? 5:53 [chuckles] You know, the economy was dancing Kukere and, um, yeah, I remember my dad, I had that conversation with my dad and I was like, "Ah, I'm done with school. 6:03 I wanna come back and pick up my job where I left it," and he's like, "Huh?" [laughs]You know? 6:11 So he's like, "Hmm, maybe you just wanna stay back and, like, get your citizenship, and then you can rethink and probably now see if coming back is, like, the final destination plan for you." 6:24 So I was like, "Okay, I think you have a great point." So I stayed back and I was like, okay, get the work permit, get the PR, get the citizenship. 6:32 And if you were to ask me that question now, would I go back to Nigeria now? I would say it depends. [laughs] I would say it really depends. What does it depend on? I'm serious, I'm curious. What does it depend on? 6:46 It depends on one major factor. It depends on if I find the right kind of opportunity that would allow me to serve, right? So it's not just about looking for a job. 7:04 I, I'm, I'm looking for, for an opportunity that would allow me to serve and make a difference, and I can tell you what I mean by that. 7:11 So whether that be me going back to head a HR department somewhere or be, um, or be called to come and serve in my community, whether that be in politics or not, I'm looking for where I can work in being, in doing work that has to do with around policy and advocacy, right? 7:29 Where we can- Mm-hmm... begin to change things from where it really matters. And it all boils down to the policies that we have in that country, to be honest with you. Yeah. 7:36 Or even in, even in the companies that exist in [chuckles] Nigeria where, you know, I still have friends there. 7:44 You hear all manner of stories and you're like, "Wait a minute, that doesn't sound like what would happen here in Canada," and a company would get away with it. But you just find it's a place where policies don't... 7:55 I don't know, they exist, but they're not operational, if you get my point, right? Whether that be- Yeah... 8:02 our labor laws, whether that be the HR policies that exist in a company, whether that be our constitution as a whole, as a country, it, it, it, it's there as a book, but I find, like, the major problem is the operationalization of it, right? 8:18 So- Yeah... that's the opportunity that I'm looking for, to go into a space where there's room to serve, make a change, do more of policy operationalization and advocacy, right? So that's why I'm saying it will do. 8:30 I mean, I was in Nigeria a couple of months, weeks ago. I just came back to Canada. So I'm in tune with what's going on there. So as somebody- Are you? But I s- Yeah, I am. Are you really in tune? Are you sure? 8:43 I'm in tune, but immune. So I'm in tune with what's going on in Nigeria, but I'm very immune to what's going on. [laughs] You know, I w- I would actually argue- Yeah... I w- I would argue that you're not even in tune. 8:55 Like, and- Mm... I just... Let me explain why I say that. So we underestimate how much we've changed when you've been away from Nigeria for this long. True. You, we underestimate how much we can take 9:13 when we've been away from Nigeria for this long. And then the last part is that when we decide to move back sometimes, we try to recreate, to a huge extent, the life we lived here. 9:29 But what that means to recreate that sort of life sometimes, it means that you become so f- divorced from the reality on ground that sometimes, 9:43 and this is all a hypothesis, so forgive me, sometimes I feel like you see them make decisions that you're like, "Do you actually really understand the country you're in, 9:54 or you think that you're where you were living before?" Because literally what's happening is that they're living such a sheltered life- Yeah... that doesn't really exactly place them 10:07 in contact with what is really going on. Because- Yeah... like, I'm not saying Nigeria cannot be fixed, and I'm not saying that all these things we are saying are not possible, but I just feel like if you really... 10:19 Two things. If you really wanna fix Nigeria or you wanna start that journey, two things have to happen. You first have to accept that the problem won't happen in your lifetime. Mm-hmm. 10:28 That it's your life's work, and you might die- Yeah... while doing that. Yeah. Because what that allow means that you're humble- Yeah... 10:35 and you're able to not take calls that will end up biting you because you are in a hurry. And then two, you have to spend a lot of time in the muck. Like, if you're not in the muck, 10:48 then it's almost hard to kinda try and fix it, because it means that you make calls that all they do is solve the symptom of problems, not the problem itself. Not the problem. 10:59 And then the pro- so it's such a, because, you know- It's a web. Yeah. 'Cause, you know, I've been to Nigeria two times since I left, and I said to people that the Nigeria I met... I left Nigeria 2021. Yeah. 11:13 Technically, I left Nigeria 2020, because I left Nigeria so early in 2020, I'm sorry, that I cannot say I was in Nigeria in 2021. Yeah. But it means that I went back 2022. The Nigeria- Wow... 11:23 I met in 2022 was different from the one I left 2021. Absolutely. When I went back last year for my dad's funeral, the Nigeria I met in 2023- In 2023 was different from the one-... was different from the one of 2022. 11:35 [laughs] Yeah. Yeah. So it's all those things that I think about sometimes, and I'm like, "Man, like, this, this job i- is..." I mean, I, when I see people like you say stuff like this, I'm like, I admire that. Yeah. 11:46 I, I'm not thinking of it right now. I, I think it's noble. I think we need people to think like that, actually. We need people to go back. But I mean- Yeah... it's just that said that I- It's, it's different for sure. 11:57 I mean, I was in Nigeria for about five months, right? Um- Are you serious? That's wow. Yeah. I, yeah. [laughs] I was in Nigeria for, like, five months 'cause I was on a leave of absence, right? 12:08 And, um, having had my baby-So I just thought- Mm-hmm... it was a really smart opportunity for me to go back and immerse myself into the culture, but most importantly, just spend time with my family, my parents, right? 12:21 Yeah. Um, and so I took the opportunity to spend, like, nearly half of my mat leave in Nigeria, and if you ask me if I would do it again, yes, it was totally worth it. Oh. So that's why I say- Oh, no worries... 12:34 I'm kind of in tune, but I'm also very immune to it. Yeah. Right? That's the thing. So I can- That's the thing... 12:40 sympathize with people, but I really- it would take a lot more for me to empathize with people in Nigeria right now, right? 12:49 Because I was there, I saw it all, I saw it play out, but I, I really didn't feel it, if you get what I mean. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. 'Cause my bread and butter doesn't come from Nigeria. It's all here in Canada. Yeah. 12:59 So if you're earning in dollars and somebody's complaining to you problems that are screaming naira and kobo, you don't really get it, right? Yeah. 'Cause it's like- Yeah... 13:09 well, I sympathize with you, but, you know, at the same time- Yeah... I really cannot walk in your shoes because then- Yes... walking in your shoes means that I have to fully come back and embrace it and then- Yeah... 13:21 change what my income, uh, currency looks like- Yeah... for me to really feel it, right? The pain, yeah. But if you're earning in another currency that is greater than the naira and kobo, you- it's hard. 13:33 It's gonna be hard for you to understand what people are saying, for sure. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I also think that, you see that thing where we, like, because every time I go back, you know, I just sort of know, 13:43 I have an escape route, if that makes sense. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Like, you just sort, you just sort of know you can escape. Yeah. Yeah, like, oh- There's a fallback plan for you, right?... no matter what happens, yeah. 13:54 Yeah, yeah, I'm just gonna, I'm just gonna get out of the country, you know? Yeah. That in itself for me sometimes is, is good and it's bad because it just kinda means that you, you're- Your allegiance... 14:09 like, you're, you're, you are, yeah, exactly. You're, you're, you're literally just, okay, we'll see what happens. Yeah. Because you sort of know that no matter what happens- There's a fallback plan... 14:20 you're just gonna get out. Yeah. There's a fallback plan. There's a fallback. You know? And it takes a special kind of person to have a fallback plan and still go 100% in. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. You get what I mean? 14:28 Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. You know, because- Absolutely... you just sort of know that you, you kinda hedge your bets 'cause- Yeah, yeah, yeah... you're like, why should I? Hmm. Yeah. Why should I? Should I not? Yeah. 14:38 It's, it's just such, but, but I think, yeah, we need more of us over here to just contribute in different ways and just see, 'cause yeah- Yeah... it's sad to watch. It's really sad to watch. 14:51 It is sad to just be a spectator. You're like, "Ah, man." Yeah, it's sad to watch. [sighs] Anyways. Yeah. It is well. [laughs] Yeah. 15:00 [laughs] 'Cause, 'cause, you know, just to add one more thing, 'cause you know that I feel like the time we left Nigeria- Yeah... is, we left Nigeria s- too late to really leave Nigeria. 15:11 Like, so you're never fully gonna be not Nigerian- Mm-hmm... no matter how long- Mm-hmm... you live here. Mm-hmm. 'Cause you spent, you w- you went to school there- Yeah... you built friendships there, you know? 15:22 Your adult, a po- a, you spent a significant portion of your adult life in Nigeria- Mm-hmm... before you left. Mm-hmm. So you're always gonna be Nigerian. 15:30 The Nigerian in you is gonna scream when you see that bad news come out of that country, right? Yeah. It's gonna give you chills. 15:37 But for our younger ones that are coming up or for the kids that we're having now- Yeah, the kid or the kids. Oh, no, no, no... they're not- Those ones are not. 15:45 [laughs] They're gonna be first Canadians before they think about being Nigerians, and that's just the honest reality, right? Yeah. Yeah. So, but anyways. Yeah. 15:54 And seeing that we're talking about this now, I think what, what I was gonna, what I'm gonna ask you, what I wanna ask you is, like, how do you think immigration, I mean, you spent five months at, at home. Mm-hmm. 16:03 How do you think living in Canada all this while has affected your relationships with, you know, those back home, new friends you made while you were back in Nigeria, older friends you had before you left? 16:15 Like, was it a plug and play where Marianne just came back home and are like, "Hey," and is back to Nigerian Marianne? Or did it take you a while to kind of just adjust? 16:26 Or did you have reverse cultural shock to the day you left? Like [laughs] Omo, that's a pretty loaded question. But yeah, I would say, did I, was I able to make new friends? 16:39 I don't think I was able to do that, but was I able to connect with, like, really old friends that I've had since maybe back in our college years? The answer is absolutely 100% yes. 16:53 Um, and that's because, you know, it's been relationship that, it's a lot of hard work. Yeah. You've had to cultivate over the years, right? 17:03 No matter the time difference and all of that, and then you guys all have, like, similar stories. You're, like, in similar places in your lives right now. Yeah. 17:12 Your career is going on for yourself, probably have one or two kids, you know. So there's always something to talk about, right? 17:19 The, I, I think I'm also very fortunate or privileged to still have old friends of mine that are very well exposed. So they have really good jobs in Nigeria. 17:31 They come abroad one or two times a year, you know, to have vacation. So it was really easy to, like, have those conversations with them and just be myself around them. 17:40 So there was no forming or any of that sort of thing, so it was easy to adjust back. But definitely, I don't think five months was enough for me to, like, make friends, right? If you get what I mean. But my [laughs] 17:54 I don't- Fair... here's one thing I also found out. It's fair. I also found out that my way of thinking was a little bit different in the way I process things and in the way I analyze things, you know. 18:07 'Cause here you're so used to keeping to yourself, but in Nigeria it's like, ah-You dey house since, you never comot. Nobody even know say you dey, right? 18:17 [laughs] And then your neighbors are all like, "Ah, you dey and you don't comot." And you're like, "I still dey." Why this people they see you for outside now? But it's that just me just... 18:26 I mean, what am I coming- Yeah... outside to do, right? Just like the comfort of my home. It's cozy. I just wanna stay indoors and things like that, right? 18:34 But it's very easy for people to misinterpret that as, "Oh, this person is forming." It's true, yeah. But yeah, I- Yeah... 18:40 I, I do cherish the friends that I, I, I've had since my college years, 'cause they were the ones that made my stay there for about five months really worth it, right? 18:49 Like, we're always hanging out, um, and just spending time together, doing the best that we could, 'cause they were all busy still working, but I was just home on vaca- vacationing, if I'm allowed to use that word, so. 19:02 But yeah, it, it was, um, it was very easy to just assimilate back into the environment 'cause of the old friends that I've, I've had, and colleagues as well, right? 19:12 Like, I was able to connect back with my PWC folks, a few of them. Um, but yeah, it was definitely... But here's a funny story. 19:20 As much as I try to assimilate into the culture, and it's funny you made that point because, you know, it was me just wearing like normal face cap, T-shirt, and maybe shorts or trousers or leggings or whatever, and then one particular incident really shook me. 19:35 I entered keke Napep, right? What we call the rickshaw. Rickshaw, for anybody who's wondering what that is. So keke Napep, right? And I remember when I came there, it was me, uh, myself and my dad. 19:45 It was on a Saturday morning or afternoon thereabout. We went to Alaba International Market, and when we came back, and when we came down from the keke Napep, the driver looked at me and said, "Hmm, we... 19:57 I, for some weird reason, I just know that you are just not from here." And I'm like, "What?" Are you serious? Yeah, and this is me speaking pidgin. 20:06 This is me trying to, like, show, you know, I'm a son of and the daughter of the soil. [laughs] And the keke Napep guy looked at me and said, "Ah, I just got back people. Welcome." 20:19 [laughs] And I, I turned to my dad and I said, "How on earth was he able to figure that out?" My dad said, "You know, it's just what it is." Like, if you've not been here for a long time, no matter how hard- 20:31 Yeah, it shows... you try- It shows. It shows. It shows. Either in your speech, your mannerisms, there's just something that gives you away. [laughs] Mm-hmm. So that was, um, a big eye-opener for me. Yeah. Yeah. So. 20:43 Yeah. I, I was talking to a colleague of mine yesterday who, um, he's, um, he's, he's, he's British. Oh. And he moved to Japan, and lived in Japan for eight years, then moved back to Britain. 20:58 And he was talking about how this concept of, which is what you're saying, how the cul- you, you, when you move, you change. You don't even know you've changed. 21:09 You know, he said example in Japan, when you go to a store, even if you're in the line and it gets to your turn, you have to wait for the server to tell you, "Okay, you can now come." 21:21 So he gets, he gets back home, and he's standing in the line, and the person in front of him sees the, the, the receptionist, the server, whoever, walks away, and he's still standing there waiting for them to call him. 21:32 Yeah. [laughs] You know, and the guy looks at him and he's like, "Uh, yo, what's going on?" Okay. He's like, "Oh, okay, yeah, I'm gonna come forward." [laughs] You know? And, and I feel like 21:45 all those, like, I think they call them cultural caches or codex. Yeah. Like they exist- They do... and you've dropped most of them, and you- Yes... 21:52 pick up new ones, and then you come into your, back to your home country, "home country"- Yeah... 21:58 that, like, that's why I put it with the quotation marks, and you get there and you're, you start acting stuff, and the person looks at you just like, "No." Yeah. "You're not from here. You're... 22:06 You don't, you don't live here." Yeah. You don't. "The things you've done that, you know, you don't live here. You just came." You just came. [laughs] It gives you away. Yeah, it gives you away. There's something, right? 22:15 So, yeah. Now, I mean, your daughter, how old would your... How old was your daughter when you guys, when y'all went there? Like, how long, how old was she? I think she was probably about five months when we left. Yeah. 22:28 So she came back when she was 10 months. She's five months then. So she came back when she was, yeah, thereabout 10 months, going on 11 months, right? Yeah. 22:36 That's when we came back, so it was a huge adjustment for her as well. But you know the good thing about it- Yeah, I was about to ask that... 22:44 a huge adjustment for her, but, um, I was really amazed at how well she adjusted, right? And of course, the first adjustment was the heat, right? First of all, the heat was insane. 22:54 Um, you know, so the heat rash and everything was something we had to deal with. 22:58 But the good thing about me deciding that I thought it was better for me to spend the portion of my mat leave back home with my daughter was it made her really adjust very quickly to solid food, right? 23:14 Like, at five months- Wow... she was, she was swallowing eba and fufu, and it just made me like [both laughing] She was really eating everything you can think about. 23:25 She knew when food arrived, she jumps up and she's ready to, like, grab it and all of that. 23:30 So it really helped, and I think it also helped with her, um, understanding, like saying a few words very quickly, like bye-bye and things like that, right? Like it really, really helped as well. 23:43 And, and I think it just, um, it's something that I would do again if I have the opportunity to. 23:48 Um, I think it was just another opportunity to connect with my extended family and also spend time with her grandparents, right? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. 23:55 So it was, it was a really, really good time, and just for me to also have that time and the support that I needed- Yeah. Yeah, nice... at, at, at home, right? Which is something you don't have here, to be honest. Yeah. 24:06 Yeah. 24:06 So back home it was, you know, my mom was always there, my dad was always there, so it was really easy for me to, like, have someone stay back, look after her, and if there are, like, you know, places I needed to go, right? 24:19 Yeah. That, that were not really baby-friendly, it was easy for me to go there, and then just know that someone at home was really taking care of her. So that, that support... was also there as well. 24:29 But I think my baby really adjusted well. Apart from the heat rash, um, there was a really great adjustment. 24:35 And of course, going around to play with the neighbor's kids, which is something you don't really do here as much, getting your, getting... allowing her to get herself dirty, right? 24:45 And be like, "Oh, it's part of childhood. Go out there and play with all the mud you wanna play with." 24:50 But, you know, so it was just a joy to behold, just see her experience what childhood looks like back, back home in Nigeria or Africa. So it was an opportunity that I was happy to have given her for sure. Yeah. 25:05 When she got back here, like, how was it again for her? Like, did she take it easy? It wa- no, it was very difficult actually. I think it took her about two weeks. She knew something had changed, right? 25:17 She definitely knew something had changed. So I think for me, it was a lot of struggle trying to get her back to the type of food that we were eating here. 25:28 'Cause I think she knew something had changed because she just wouldn't eat anything. She just wouldn't eat anything. 25:34 And so I had to go back to puree, making like straight up puree or smoothies, like blending fruits together, and I think that was just what started helping her to change her taste buds again. 25:45 But it took like, honestly two weeks till I had to go back to eating solid food. Um, and then I think she also knew that her grandparents were not here anymore. Yeah. 25:56 'Cause I would see her going to the door to like, you know, 'cause every time my dad or mom came back from work, she would always run to the door to like open it up and see who's there. 26:04 So I knew she knew something had changed, 'cause she would always go to the room, the door of our bedroom to like open it up and see someone is there. 26:13 But by and large, I think she adjusted over two weeks, and then she had to start daycare and- Yeah. How did she handle that? 26:21 You know, um, it was rough as well, very rough as well, and, um, she was there for a couple of weeks, [chuckles] and now we're choosing the path for her to just stay home permanently with me until further notice. 26:37 So yeah. [laughs] How, how old is she now? How old is she now? She, she's 12 months going on 13 months, so yeah. Oh, okay. 12 months going on 13. Yeah. 26:45 I mean, yeah, day- I mean, I c- I can, I can imagine she's struggling with all that attention that comes with the grandparents, you know, and then you coming back to the daycare system, which is a very different kind of system- Yeah... 26:58 from, from the privilege she's had, 'cause she's a privileged- Yes... kid, to be honest. She is. A kid born here, goes back to get [chuckling] the Ni- that Nigerian... 27:04 'Cause you know the, I mean, like, and I, I assume it's the re- it's the same rest of Africa, that Nigerian almost like overpowering love and attention around a little one that will just- Mm-hmm... draw into the family. 27:18 It's like people don't even wanna- Really... see her cry. They're like, "Oh-" Yes. "See the..." Like- Yes... "Look, did I..." [chuckles] Oh, man. [laughs] So it's like- Yes... 27:27 once she screams, there's someone ready to grab her. One, there's someone ready to- Yes... say, "What is it? What is it? What is it?" Right? So it's, uh, it's quite different, to be honest with you. So yeah. 27:41 We're done talking about your daughter. What of you yourself? Like, 27:46 w- I'm interested to find out y- what were the thing, the b- the biggest reverse cultural shocks you had when you moved back or you went back to Ghana and stayed there for that long? 'Cause five months is a while. 27:57 I think for me... Yeah, it was a long time. I think for me it was just, I don't know, um, I will start with the things that I was very much pleased about, right? I don't wanna dwell so much on the bad things. 28:12 So the things that- [chuckles]... I was really happy that had changed was our airport. The Nigerian airport is totally different from what you used to know it to be. 28:21 So I give that kudos to the federal government or the Lagos State government. 28:25 I'm not sure whose job it was to get that up and running, but the ambiance is totally different, totally better than what you used to think it was. 28:36 You know, that, that smell, awful smell that greets you when you walk in there- [chuckles] Yeah, I just gotta be really honest, right? It's no longer there. [laughs] It's no longer there. 28:49 So it's like the, the Nigerian culture was immersed in the artwork, in the paintings on the wall, the air conditionings were working. The immigration officers all of a sudden I thought were really at their best, right? 29:03 They were really friendly, really chatty. Like, they were straight up there to just do their job, right? So it was the first thing that hit me to say, "Oh, okay, this is really good." 29:14 Um, and then of course you leave there, and then you begin to explore the streets of Lagos, and then you figure out not much has really changed, to be honest with you. Yeah. 29:23 Um, the roads are as awful as they've always been. 29:29 Um, another good thing that I thought I was really pleased about was the rail, the rail, um, transportation system that the Lagos State government really j- I thought it was a really good, um, initiative. 29:42 So I took, um, I, I did, you know, explore that railway or the train station that takes you all the way from the, um, outskirts of Lagos into the islands, as it were. Mm-hmm. 29:58 And I thought it was a really good improvement, right? 30:00 But by and large, you would really have thought that things would have been better than where they are in terms of infrastructure, in terms of, yeah, the basic amenities that are out there. 30:12 Things are just uncoordinated, very disorganized, you know. 30:16 Um, you can see a little bit of improvement in terms of infrastructure here and there, but you also know that with the revenue that we're generating in Lagos alone, we should be doing better, right? 30:27 So kudos to the Lagos State government for what they've done so far, but I do know that there's a lot of opportunity for us to keep doing better, for sure. 30:35 SoYeah, that was the first thing that hit me, was just I thought the development could have been way better than where we are. 30:42 But again, you can see like just m- very small improvements in infrastructure here and there, like I mentioned, the airport, the rail, uh, transport system that we have in Lagos right now. 30:52 But the roads, man, are as awful as they've always been. Yeah. [laughs] They, yeah, so yeah, it's, um, it's just what it is. Yeah. Mm-hmm. 31:09 I mean, now s- seeing you've done this back forth, like being here for a while, moved back to Nigeria, spent five months. Five months is quite some time. Yeah. Yeah. I'm just, I'm curious, like 31:20 what do you define as home? Hmm. You know? I think for me, home is, home is any place that I take a piece of me to. 31:34 It's, it's so hard to call, uh, Canada like home, home, and it's so hard to call Nigeria home, home. 31:43 So I feel like for me, home will always be where I feel like I have a lot of support system, will always be a place that I take a piece of me with me to and call that home. 31:59 But to be honest with you, if I'm to answer this question without any diplomacy, I think Nigeria will always have a special place in my heart. That's okay. 32:13 It's so, it, it's, yeah, n- like it's so hard and, and it goes back to the point that you and I have made where, you know, at the time we left Nigeria, I was like- Yeah... probably in my late 20s at that time, right? 32:27 Twenty-seven, 28-ish- Mm-hmm... when I left the country, right? So because you left at the time where you were al- your mind was already formed, shaped, matured to a certain place- Yeah... 32:40 you, you're always gonna assimilate anywhere you go, right? But you will not always be so quick to forget where you're coming from. Yeah. 32:48 So I, I think no matter how long I stay away from Nigeria, it will always, it will always have a special place in my heart. Um- Yeah... 32:56 Canada too will always have a special place in my heart, but, um, at the same time, I think we shouldn't always be too quick to forget what our roots are and, um- Yeah... 33:08 because that's what has formed us and also has given us this opportunity that we have to actually be- Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm... citizens of another great country, right? Mm-hmm. Um, but Nigeria will always be home. 33:18 It will always have a special place in my heart, and Canada will always also be a place I call home just because, I mean, my kids will have the opportunity to get to grow here and fully- Yeah... 33:28 immerse into the culture, right? Yeah. So yeah. Nigeria will always have a special... I'm sorry, but [laughs]- Yeah... 33:36 it would, it would always have a special place in my heart regardless of the fact that that country is bleeding. Yeah. Yeah. Um, yeah. But yeah. It, regardless of how much- It's, it is... 33:48 it's bleeding, which is very sad, but it would, it would always have a special place in my heart, to be honest. Yeah. This is such a great place to end this, but I think I just have one question for you. 34:00 [laughs] Yeah, it's such a- [laughs] 'Cause I'm not sure, I'm not sure if we deserve to add any other question atop this, honestly. Honestly. [laughs] But so maybe I'll just round up with this and just ask, 34:13 do you really think you, if you consider all that's going on in Nigeria right now, do you really think you would take your daughter back again and spend five months there? Yes, I would. 34:23 Without even thinking about it, I would. Um, as long as my parents are still there, um, I will definitely do this again, honestly speaking. I think what we need to do, I'm a first-generation immigrant, right? So- Yeah... 34:39 first person ever in my family to come here and become a citizen of another country. 34:45 I think the gift that we can always give to our, our children is to always let them know what their identity is because, um, I think that would help them to form their self-esteem, to help them build confidence, right? 35:02 To know that they have the opportunity to come from different roots. So yes, they're Canadian- Yes... but also yes, you're Nigerian. Nigerian. 35:10 And it's really important to know where you're really from, speak the language, know the people. I mean, I speak Igbo to my daughter at home. 35:18 [laughs] Uh, we, we spoke Igbo right from when we were in Nigeria, so it's just good for her to hear that different language while she was back home, right? 35:26 Now, would she grow up learning how to speak that language in its entirety? I don't know. Time will tell. 35:32 But I try my best to speak the language in the house with her, right, as much as I can, and those are the gifts that we can give them, to be bilingual, even though I know people might question that. 35:42 But I mean, if she's speaking Igbo and speaking English- It's a strength... that's bilingual for me. [laughs] It's a strength, actually. Right? Yeah, it's a strength. 35:48 Um, so for me, I think that's the gift that we can give them. Go back as often as we can afford to do that, speak the language to them, allow them to spend time with their grandparents, right? 36:00 Those are privileges that they can enjoy now because that's what shapes them and gives them the confidence that we really do want them to have at the end of the day, right? 36:09 And not everybody will agree with that, but for me, I just feel like it's- That's okay... what, what is- That's it... what is worth doing is worth doing well. Yeah. 36:16 And I do want my child to have that experience of having both cultures and, and living and immersing herself into it. I mean, I do agree with you. I, I think that it is... 36:30 I think if you have the opportunity to do, you should do it. Yes. Yes. 'Cause- Especially now that we still have, I, I still have the privilege of having my grandparents around. Yeah. 36:40 I mean, my parents around, which are her grandparents, right? Yeah. Yeah. So I just feel like what better time to do that now that they're here, because there's gonna come a time, I- Time... 36:50 yep, you know, they're not gonna be as strong enough to do that, or probably not even be around anymore, right? So- Yeah... I, now that I have that support system, I feel like I wanna utilize it as much as I can. Yeah. 37:07 Agreed. Agreed. I mean, there are people who say, "Oh, you're here, you know, fully immersed." I'm like, "Yeah, maybe, but also if you can, please 37:15 give your child the opportunity to get some of the gifts you have, which is- Yes... being someone who's lived two lives." Yeah. Like I talk about I had a Nigerian life. Yes. 37:25 And it, it does have its thing in my head, and then I, and I'm now building a Canadian software bank- Yes... in my head, too. [laughs] So why not give your child that advantage, you know? Um- Exactly. But yeah. Exactly. 37:39 Thank you so much, Ike. Thank you. Love this. [laughs] I love this conversation, right? Thank you so much for inviting me [laughs] to sit at- Yeah... this table and have this- This table?... virtual conversation. Yeah. 37:54 It's, it's a table, I tell you. That, that get on the table. [laughs] Oh, man. Thank you so much for listening to this. I hope you have enjoyed this. And yeah, for most of us who have moved, 38:09 our home country will always be special for us. As usual, please like, share, subscribe. Yeah, if you know someone who'll find this useful, please send to them and say, "Hey, listen to this. You should listen to this." 38:22 Have a good day. Ciao. [outro jingle]
