Transcript 0:00 Something I find really interesting whenever I talk to immigrants, and I think it happens to me too, is the fact that, 0:08 I'll use Nigerians for example, and I've heard other people talk about it, but I'll give a Nigerian example, is the fact that the things that we start to miss about home are the things that we didn't like when we were back home. 0:21 Anne talks about it here too when she talks about she misses the community, she misses the friendliness. Sometimes I miss the community that we have. The family checking on you, knocking on your neighbor's door. 0:34 It's Christmas, it's Sallah, you know, cooking something, exchanging snacks, exchanging meals. I miss that somehow. [intro music] Welcome. 0:52 Welcome. Welcome. Um, first of all- Thank you... thank you, thank you for doing this, Anne. Like, thank you. Um, you, you know why I started trying to talk to someone in Finland? Someone actually asked me- Okay... 1:04 sent a comment on the podcast and said, "Hey, can you do, can you find someone in Finland and interview- For real? [laughs]... them for the podcast?" 1:12 And then I go like, "Okay, I need to find someone who lives in Finland or who has- Wow... moved to Finland." Welcome. My pleasure. My pleasure. My pleasure to be here. 1:21 I'm really, I'm really happy to be here because I've known May for a while, and she just told me, "Hey, you're doing a podcast." I don't know if she has watched my YouTube channel. 1:29 I used to have a YouTube, but it's kind of defunct. 1:31 Well, I just got, like, overwhelmed at some point, and I just said, "Okay, I'm just going to, like, share some experiences and, you know, lifestyle changes here and cultural shocks here in Finland pretty much." 1:43 So when I heard you were doing this, I was like, "Okay, I'm gonna jump on it. I'll take the opportunity." So- Yeah. Cool. Cool... I'm happy to be here. Yeah. Nice. Nice. 1:50 You talked about overwhelm, and I'm gonna just kind of dive into that. Like- Yeah... what was overwhelming that made you drop your, your, your... 'Cause it was, it had a really nice name, Naija Finland Girl. Yeah. 2:00 I'm like, that sounds- Yeah... like a really good title. Yeah. It's because, uh, it w- it's this, uh, integration issue in Finland. It's really hard to integrate in Finland as a foreigner. 2:11 Like, Finland is a country that is still far, like, far away from other countries in terms of, uh, internationalization and accepting foreigners. 2:19 And the reason why I even chose Naija Finland Girl was to merge the two together by force, like, to be part of this place. 2:26 Like, because I felt like at some point I'm now Finnish, but I'm not Finnish in a sense that- Interesting... 2:32 I had lived here for about five years, you know, behaving almost Finnish, speaking the language, not perfectly of course, but then again, you are still not Finnish. 2:43 And that's just-- And I saw a friend of mine that was in Canada, she had the name Naija Canada Girl. I was like, "Okay, I'm gonna..." [laughs] So somehow I just got that idea and I was like, "Okay, I'm gonna do that." 2:53 And then I started this YouTube channel, and I changed my Instagram to Naija Finland Girl pretty much. That was the motivation. Yeah. Interesting. You know, 3:04 so did you look, did you research and find out all this about Finland before you moved? Like, 'cause I wanna ask you why Finland, but it's more like- Of course. Okay. The idea was in 2000 and was it 12 or 13? 3:19 I was working in a bank then in Nigeria, UBA, and I was overwhelmed with my job. Like, I felt like there was no value really, and I just said I wanted to further my education. 3:28 I wanted to school abroad, like do something, and I was researching. And then my cousin told me about Finland, Sweden, and Norway. That, "Hey, if you wanna go abroad, look at these three countries. 3:37 Their tuition is free." But I was like, "Yeah, let's go to Canada," because a lot of Nigerians were going to Canada, and I felt like it was far away, different from the culture. 3:44 It's not like US or UK where Nigerians are all migrating to. I wanted something different to experience a different culture. 3:51 So I started researching, and I narrowed down my choices to Canada and Finland, but then again, Finland was free tuition. It was totally, absolutely free. And then as a Nigerian with how much savings- [laughs]... 4:02 it was just the easiest, cheapest option. Like, the visa process for me compared to others back then was pretty straightforward. Yeah. Like, I didn't have to do too much. Like, I just had savings. 4:13 My brother was my sponsor, so it was just the main reason. I wanted to go to-- When I look at Norway, Norway wanted me to put in some amount of money in a certain bank account until I got there. 4:25 Sweden at that time stopped offering free tuition, and then was just Finland that was the remaining option. And what happened was in 2014, I googled Finland. I looked at one university, 4:39 and they were accepting applications into a particular course. I just lazily filled an application form, and lo and behold, three months later I got an email, like from Naijpost, right? 4:52 Nigerian Post [chuckles] with packages of, uh, maps, brochures, schedules. They sent me a letter. They told me, "This is the reason why you were not admitted, because you didn't finish your application." 5:05 I'm like, "Seriously? This people took me that serious?" Like, I had forgotten about the whole thing, and they were like, "If you want to get admission into Finland, this is the process you should do. 5:14 These are the things you should go through. Read this brochure, read this map," and all that. I'm like, "Okay, this, this country, they are really organized. Let me see what they have to offer," right? 5:25 So I just started my process, like application process, and in 2016, I just got an email. I didn't even have to do an interview for the university. 5:34 Of course, I traveled to Abuja for the in- uh, embassy visa interview, right? But I didn't have to do anything else. I just got, like, an email that I was admitted into University of Tampere in 2016, April, and by August 5:49 I was in Finland. Yeah. So it's pretty straightforward and easy. [laughs] Yeah. Is it still that way now or has it changed? 5:58 Uh, ironically it has changed, yeah, because inasmuch as at that time I felt like Finland wanted peopleTo come into Finland, so the tuition was free, the process was easy. For now, tuition is no longer free in Finland. 6:12 So yeah, it's, it's way different because I, I, I felt like Finland couldn't cope with the, the inflow or the influx of foreigners coming in, and they didn't just know what to do with them. 6:25 People were complaining, people came here. Because I feel like Finland is a very short-term place where people co- they transit through Finland. 6:32 They come here, do their master's degree, or they do some exchange studies and they leave. And I think Finland saw that they were losing from this- Oh... 6:39 like, you know, this kind of workforce, this kind of young people talent. They put in so much resources to train people, and then people immigrate out of Finland. 6:47 So they decided-- And I think they were overwhelmed at some point too with the influx. Like, a lot of people were just coming into Finland and they wanted to just put limitations. Mm. 6:55 So they introduced tuition fees and, uh, of course, the visa process was a lot more harder. They s- they used, they're using an agency for the whole thing. 7:03 I think it was just one year after I got in that everything pretty much changed in Finland. Yeah. Interesting. Yeah. So. Interesting. 7:11 And y- you know, now, you know, I'm just going back to, you talked about integration and I'm just trying to zero in on that and ask, the first week, how did it feel? So when I landed in Finland, it was raining. 7:24 It was August, I think August 15th or August 16th, 'cause I left Nigeria August 15th, and I arrived August 16th, 2016. The air was as clean as ever, and there were no people. Like, the, the airport was literally empty. 7:38 My luggage was waiting for me somewhere. Like, it was just, like, in my mind I was like, "Where's everybody in this country?" Fine. Somebody that came to pick me up came to pick me up from the airport. 7:48 We drove, 'cause I arrived in Tampere. Tampere is, like, two hours away from Helsinki. And I got to my student apartment. 7:56 Because everything is so organized, you get an apartment before you even land because they want that you're... So the apartment was clean. Like, everything was just, like, refrigerated, like heating, laundry. 8:08 I had furnishing in my apartment. Like, of course it was a three-room shared apartment with other two- Students... uh, students, right? So I had my own room, but I had a bed, I had a table, a chair. 8:18 I was like, "Wow, like, this country is really organized." Like, even driving from Helsinki to Tampere, there was no traffic. The roads were, like, on point. Clean. Very clean. 8:28 And I looked out my window and I was like, "Where is everybody?" I thought that, you know, there's this kind of feeling that you get when you're playing football match somewhere and everybody's watching you. 8:38 [laughs] So that's how it felt. That's how it felt when I arrived Tampere. It was quiet. I'll tell you, that night was the most peaceful night of my life. It felt like I was on a holiday. 8:49 Yes, because I'm coming from Lagos with about 25 million people, traffic. What I noticed also is that they don't honk here anyhow. Yeah. So I, I, yeah, I didn't hear the car honking. I didn't hear traffic noise. 9:03 I could hear my heartbeat for the first time in many years. Seriously, so it was wow. And then I slept because it was a long flight, right? Yeah. 25-hour flight, and then I slept. 9:17 I woke up the next day around, like, 12:00. So when I woke up I was like, "Wow, where am I?" Like, it felt so refreshing. I went to take a warm shower. 9:25 It was, like, it was so, like, I felt like I was a new pers- It felt it was like some kind of [laughs] fantasy land in a sense. Reality had not hit then. Yeah. Of course, it was just like, wow, abroad feeling, you know. 9:39 The air is clean. You open the wa- the tap, you can drink water, because I was told that I can drink the water from the tap. I don't have to buy water in Finland, and the water is as clean as ever. 9:49 So it felt, it felt really good. It felt like I was on a, you know, mini fantasy land somehow. That's how. Yeah. 9:58 You know s- you know someone, I, I, I s- there's, there's an episode I'm editing currently, and his name is Suhas, and he calls it the honeymoon stage. It's like the honeymoon stage for every immigrant. Of course. 10:11 It's when, like, it's when-- Which is why I'm just laughing- Yeah... because, like, it is so real. Like- [laughs] Yeah. It is... like, the honeymoon stage is where everything is so beautiful and sweet. 10:21 And then- Everything's so beautiful... then the, the human condition sets in, which is when we'll be like, "Okay, I don't like this thing." Exactly. "I, I, I like that. Why did they say this?" 10:30 Or, or, you know, it's just really interesting. [laughs] Yeah. Like, for me, it was honeymoon until... 10:38 And the first shock that sometimes the culture shock comes in, it hits you, but you're not aware that this is a shock- Mm-hmm... because you're still in that excitement stage. Mm-hmm. 10:48 Like, when I woke up the next day, I didn't see anybody, and I was thinking, "Okay, maybe at, at some point I'll start greeting people," and you know. And I went down the steps. I, some friends came to see me. 10:59 Like, I was in touch with some Nigerian friends on NairaLand. It was a forum then where we used to interact for, like, you know, uh, foreign students. Yeah. 11:09 And then I was coming down the steps and I saw a girl just coming up. She's Finnish, and I was just like, "Oh," chitty chat. I was like, "Hello, la, la, la. My name is Anne. I just came to Finland." 11:17 Like, I was so excited, right? And I asked her, I don't know what I asked her, but she was like, "Sorry that the shops are closed," but she's gonna help me. 11:23 So she went to her apartment and she actually gave me some beddings because I needed some, like, extra sheets, right? And I felt like, "Wow, these people are so nice." 11:31 And, and I will, I'll be walking and I'll be greeting people, but some people won't answer and I won't care, 'cause I just felt like, well, maybe they didn't hear me or whatever. It's their cup of tea. Do you get? 11:43 But it took a while, like, [laughs] learn certain things about their culture and understand certain things about them. Even things that I noticed there and then that I didn't acknowledge. It was later that 11:56 I began to, you know, acknowledge these things. Yeah. I, I... And now since you mentioned culture, let me just ask you, like, so what-And what cultural shocks hit you the most? Mm. 12:08 And, you know, which of them were like, you were like, "Oh, yeah," you know, that happened the honeymoon stage. Like, you were like, "Okay, yeah, I, I, I-" Yeah. "... that's nothing." 12:15 And then at some point, when you spend- Yeah... quite some time there, then you're like, "This is not really cool. It shouldn't be happening." Yeah. It's not... 12:23 Well, culture shocks, for example, like it's normal for you not to even know your next door ne- neighbor's name. Hmm. Same here. Yeah, like [laughs] for real. Okay. [laughs] It's normal to- Same here... 12:38 not know, yeah, it's normal to not know your next door's neighbor's name. It's normal to pass elderly people and not greet them. Yeah. Yeah. 12:46 I didn't acknowledge, I noticed it in the beginning, but I just felt like, oh, maybe it was just something else. But as time went on, first month it happens to you, you ignore it. 12:56 Then you're there two months, three, six months, and you realize that you don't have any Finnish friends. Then you start to wonder like, what's going on? Like, is there something wrong with me? Like, a- am I the problem? 13:09 Am I too, am I too Black? I didn't even know I was Black until I got to Finland. Of course, I knew I was Black, but I didn't know how Black I was or how- Yeah... far away from their culture that I was until I got here. 13:21 So that's why it's, I still talk about that integration thing. Like, it's really, it was, it is still hard. I've been in Finland 13:28 seven years, I'll be eight years this year, and I can count how many Finnish friends that I can call my friends. That's interesting. Yeah. That's, that's the reality in Finland. 13:40 Let me just ask you a very challenging question right now, which is basically, do you think it's a two-way street? 'Cause 13:47 there's this, there's the argument that people make that integration is me and you, so society does its part and you do your part. And so I'm just asking you- Yeah... if you think about, if you reflect on, 13:56 if you reflect on your journey so far through Finland and the fact that- Yeah... yes, you don't have any Finnish friends, do you think that you could have done more or you think you've done your best? 14:05 I think, sincerely, I think I've done my best, and because there's so much that you can do. But then the language, when there's a language barrier- Hmm... right? 14:18 Then, and people have made friends already since they were childhood, like in their, you know, with their childhood friends and their childhood times, then it's like too late for you to come in. 14:28 I have some friends now actually, but of course I've known them over the years and it took a while for the friendship to grow and build. 14:36 So I feel like there's nothing that I haven't done in terms of even in my class as at then, we had about five Finnish students. 14:45 I think we're, I don't, I don't think we're up to 18 or 20 of us in that class, as at that time they were all like internationals, and the five or six Finnish people would always sit together. 14:57 Because even though Finns don't speak English as their national language, most of them understand English and speak English fluently. But I still feel like they are not so confident. 15:08 They have this moment, like they st- they, I think they wear this mask just to speak with you and interact with you, but after a while they just go back and they're like, "Oh." 15:18 They still want to be able to, they cannot express themselves completely in English language. So it's just like an official kind of- Yeah... language for them, if that makes any sense. Yeah. 15:30 Except the international ones, of course, there's always a section. Yeah. Yeah. But pretty much. Yeah. Yeah. That's it. Now, do you w- you've, you've, you can speak the language now, right? 15:43 Not fluently, but you can s- Yeah... you can communicate. Not, not, not f- I'm far from perfect, but I can communicate. I can live my everyday life in Finnish. 15:49 I've worked in Finnish language, so I can survive- In Finnish language... with Finnish language. Yeah. Now, do you think that if you think about the friendships you've built, do you think that- Hmm... 15:59 they got better, you got better at making friends with Finns as you learned the language? No. Oh. I got better with Finnish while working with Finnish. 16:11 Because the friends you have, if you want to establish real friendships, it's hard to speak another language that is a second language, right? Hmm. Because then it's not real. You can't discuss certain real life issues. 16:24 You can't dive deep emotionally. And if I'm trying to speak my very horrible Finnish at, as at that time that I got here- [laughs]... and they are switching, because it's like a brain switch for them- Yeah... 16:36 to switch from Finnish to English, and I'm switching from English, which is my national language, to Finnish, I don't think it would've been, it wouldn't have been so real or so pure. 16:49 Of course, I've had acquaintances where we have decided, "Okay, let's try to speak Finnish for today," or you can get like a language learning partner or something like that. Hmm. Yeah. Where, you know, you... 17:00 But I learnt my Finnish language while working with Finnish, pretty much. That's how I was able to. And these were with people that couldn't speak Finnish at, uh, English at all, because they had no choice. 17:15 I was working in the kitchen [laughs]. They had no choice. They couldn't speak English at all, and I just had to like, you know, at some point I would go to the corner and translate something after saying. 17:24 Like if I think back, if I think back, if I think back, God, I said some stupid things there, because the worst way to learn Finnish language is with Google Translate. 17:34 There's some things that, and they know that I use Google Translate. [laughs] Yes. So- Google Translate is the worst tool ever. It's- I'm sorry, Google. It's, it's- It is the worst... yeah. Yeah. 17:45 But I used it like shamelessly, because I was in a very desperate situation where I needed to communicate with people, and then I would just go quickly and then just check Google Translate when I needed to say something. 17:55 Yeah. I needed to earn a living, right? Yeah. So yeah, that, that was just how I... Then I learned and then corrected myself. 18:02 I would hear them speak and then I would try to say or, you know, copy what they're saying and- Yeah... you know, as time went on I just, you know, picked on. I'm still far from perfect. 18:13 I still call myself like intermediate levelThat's, I mean, that's- Yeah... that's, that's good. That's good enough, I guess. 18:19 Yeah, but that's- 'Cause honestly some people just, some people go out and don't even do anything. They just, they get frustrated and they move. 18:23 And I think you've done amazing by actually trying to say, "I'm gonna learn Finnish to that level." Because you are above basic now, that's what it means, right? Of course, I'm above basic, yeah. 18:32 And it just feels like a waste pretty much to leave a- after learning the language because you know you put in so much effort learning this hard language. And why? Why, why do you think it's a waste? 18:42 Because Finnish is the fo- well, a- among the fifth, f- top five most difficult languages in the world. Did you know? No, I didn't know that. Yeah, it's top five after Chinese, Hebrew, then you see Finnish. 18:57 Like, it's very hard. Yes. So the effort, and I, of course, I would still maybe, I don't know, like, I'm still open to any opportunities that come up in the future, but I feel like I've put in so much effort- Mm. 19:09 Yeah, in Finland, that I feel like, okay, I would really like to, you know, just- Make it work... use that. Make it work. Exactly. That's the word, make it work. Yeah. Make it work. That's it. Yeah. 19:20 J- just going back to something we were speaking about, how long did your honeymoon phase last? Uh, [chuckles] I think it was short-lived because I arrived in, in, [chuckles] in August, and that's like end of summer. 19:30 It was still warm. Yeah. And, you know, the weather was friendly and nice, September. I think it was around that November, December that I realized that, what, what the hell? Like, for real. 19:42 I woke up in the morning, [chuckles] one morning you wake up and the sun doesn't rise. Like- Gosh... I thought it was normal. I've read about it in books. Yeah, it's normal to... 19:51 But then you just wake up and then it's dark. Uh, and then I was like, "What is this?" One day I went out to IKEA to get some furnitura- furnishing, and I didn't have mobile internet. 20:03 Like, for some reason, I don't know what happened to my mobile internet. And the way everything works in Finland is that you use bus, uh, the, the traffic apps to control the buses and whatev- whatnot. 20:14 And I got this furniture from IKEA, and I was carrying it. It started snowing all of a sudden. Like, I got a jacket then. 20:22 My first winter jacket was from a secondhand store because I couldn't afford to get a brand new winter jacket. And Jesus Christ, my fingers would have been cut off, like, if not for like, I was freezing. 20:35 So I was waving down cars, like hitchhiking. No car stopped. It was snowy up to almost my ank- like above, way above my ankles, right? And it was windy. 20:48 I was carrying a fur- I can't remember what I was carrying, like a lamp or something. And then I was just trying to, like, hitchhike. Like, I was lost somehow. 20:54 I didn't even know where to connect the buses or which one was going. Like, you know, when you use the buses, like, you're supposed to be going and you're... 21:00 I don't know, like, I was just somewhere else, and then I was waving down cars. Nobody stopped. They would look at you and say, "Sorry," and they just keep driving. Like, I almost cried. I was like, "What?" 21:13 It was just one guy after, like, how many minutes that the guy stopped, and he was like, "Sorry, where are you going? My English is not so good." I said, "I'm going to Tampere. I live in Tampere." 21:21 He was like, "Okay, I'm going to Ylöjärvi. I'll drop you here, and then this is where..." So he just picked me up. And I said, "Thank you so much." I was just thanking the guy that. 21:30 But then I just learned after that, that, hey, please don't do hitchhiking being here. It's not something that people do. You get your bus card and you move. Nobody owes you shit, and you don't owe anybody shit. 21:40 [chuckles] That's it. So it was one of those times I just, it began to dawn on me that, okay, this is how these people are. Like, they don't help strangers that they don't know. 21:50 Depends on where you are, but as at that time, really, like, it's not a thing that people just pick up people on the road with their cars, so. Was that the first time it hit you that you weren't home? Yeah, of course. 22:04 Like, because I was, like, in the middle of the snow storm. I was-- I, I told myself, "If anything happens to me here, like, how would my mom, like, who would hear about me?" Do you get what I mean? Like, it- Yeah... 22:15 I was, it was just, it was, it was so snowy. It was like a, almost like an avalanche. Like, I was in the middle of nowhere. It was just white. I was thumping. It was cold. My jacket was not even holding. 22:27 My hands were freezing. No internet con- I was f- And I was begging car, I was waving down cars, and I realized that, man, 22:37 huh, well, because if I were in Lagos, I know one way or the other, you will get home because someone will pick you up. You-- It's not, it's not that hard. There are people everywhere. And this- Yeah... 22:46 Tampere is a place that there are not many people. This is not even capital. What's the population of Finland to start with? Do you get? So it just dawned on me that, oh man, this is not my home. Like, [chuckles] 22:59 anything that happens to me here, you're on your own. [chuckles] Pretty much, yeah. And I, I think, I think the pr- I have just, like, two qu- two more questions for you. 23:09 I think the first one is, so in all of this, like, what do you miss most about Nigeria? Do you miss anything at all? I miss, I miss how happy we are as a country and a people. 23:23 Like, I went to Nigeria 2022 November, and I miss, of course, the weather is warm. I feel like we're very positive people, and I, sometimes I miss the community that we have. 23:38 The family checking on you, knocking on your neighbor's door. It's Christmas, it's Sallah, you know, cooking something, exchanging snacks, exchanging meals. 23:48 I miss that somehow, because even though I have friends here now, they are not next-door neighbors to me. Mm. If that makes any sense. Yeah, they're not next-door neighbors to me, so you can't just see them every... 24:00 You can't, you don't-- You're coming down the steps in your apartment. In Nigeria, for example, you, you, you see a neighbor you haven't seen- Yeah... in a week, and then you stop by and chitchat with the neighbor. 24:13 "Hey, how is it going? How's that?" They complain about one thing or the other. You argue about one thing or the otherYou, you know, and then you move. But here it's not like that. 24:23 You just barely say hi to your neighbors. So that kind of, you know, interact- human interaction. I s- I always said that you can operate 24 hours a day in Finland without any human interaction, just pressing buttons. 24:41 Yeah. [chuckles] So I kind of miss that somehow. Yeah, definitely. Now just, you know, Nigeria has changed a lot, so do you think that all this is nostalgia or it's just, like, really... 24:52 You know, because you know how when we move from somewhere, like we carry a- Yeah... memory of that place and go, but then the- Mm... place keeps moving on too, and it's changed so much. 'Cause I mean, 25:05 I know Nigeria is not the same Nigeria it used to be. 2016 is not the same Nigeria it used to be now. But do you think- Yeah... 25:10 that those thing, you think it's just nostalgia, you know, like, "Oh yeah, I miss that shit and I wanna bring it back to right, to myself right now"? Yeah, I kind of miss it in a sense. 25:17 Like, even I feel Nigeria is, is not, uh, it hasn't changed too far from the interaction, because when I landed in Nigeria in 2022 in the airport, like, of course sometimes it's too much because I got this reverse cultural shock, right? 25:27 Yeah. Where people are over, like, over-familiar with you and over, you know, trying to get something from you. But then again, I feel like here people are too secluded. Like, it's just this kind of lonely lifestyle. 25:41 Like, people are fine being alone. In the bus stops, yeah, COVID was very easy for Fin- for Fins because they were always five meters apart from each other. [laughs] That's how they are. 25:52 If you get in the bus, if you get in the bus in Finland, and you're sitting by the window and there's an empty s- nobody's gonna sit beside you until everywhere is full before somebody sits next to you. 26:04 That's interesting. It is very weird to start a conversation with your seat neighbor. Do you get? Yeah, that's how it is, because they don't like to come close to... 26:15 There's this personal, they respect personal space a lot, even when waiting for the buses, when you're lining up to get to the bus. 26:22 Like, in the morning I'm rushing, the bus is maybe just one minute late, or maybe I'm even the one that is late and I'm just trying to... No, there's a queue, but they still maintain their distance. Do you get? 26:32 At first I felt like there was something wrong with me. Maybe I'm in the clothing shop and I'm checking the clothing rack, I see somebody trying to come and they see me there, they just go the other way. 26:41 I thought they were avoiding me, but no, it's just that personal space. Yeah. Yeah. They don't engage in small talk, like how's the, the weather. 26:50 [laughs] And the weather is, the weather is always shit and they admit it, so there's no need to talk about it. Yeah. So that's how they are somehow. They are like that. They are not so... So 27:01 I feel it's like two extreme worlds in a sense- Mm.... because Nigeria is on another extreme end- Yeah... but then Finland is on another far extreme end. Even within themselves, they are, like, distant. So 27:15 it makes it even hard for a foreigner. Culture is a really interesting thing. It's so interesting how people are so different. Like, we're all in the same world, we all breathe the same air- Yeah... and all that. 27:25 We have different t- climates, yes, but, like, we're just so different. Like, so different, people. Um, so the last question- Yeah... 27:32 I have is, what's one question I should have asked you that you think anyone who's planning to, who's an immigrant in Finland or planning to immigrate should, would like to hear, like, or an answer to? 27:44 Oh yeah, definitely. Like, if you wanna move to Finland, you should think about where you want, your long-term goals. Long-term goals are very important. It's not about where you want to be next year. 27:56 It's not about where you wanna be tomorrow. Finland is not a place to migrate for, to live for each day. You should have a long-term plan if you wanna come to Finland in the next five to 10 years. 28:10 Because even if you come to Finland to study, somehow you're gonna find yourself studying Finnish language. 28:16 The question you should have at the back of your mind is, do you want to stay after studies or do you want to leave? 28:22 Are you just coming here to benefit from the free education system, or you're working here for a time being and leaving, or do you want to work for the next five to 10 years and live in Finland? 28:33 I think that's a very important question, because when I was coming, I didn't have any idea. I was just leaving Nigeria and I was coming- Yeah... to study and I was just like, "I'm, I'm off. I don't care." Yeah. Right? 28:42 And then I came to Finland. After first, the first year, the second year I graduated, I'm like, "What am I gonna do with my life with this degree that I have?" 28:50 Because there's no guarantee that if you study here, you're gonna get a job. Do you get? Like, there's no, nobody promises you any kind of job because you studied in Finland. 29:01 So you have to have a long-term plan, and your present goals, in a sense, should align with your long-term plans. Yeah. I don't know if that makes any sense. Yeah. Like, what you're studying or what you wanna do- Yeah... 29:13 or if it's for family reasons. Like, it should be able to align. You should be able to think far ahead and not just be, like, in the moment. Because it's the kind of place that people want to come to in the moment. 29:24 They see pictures of the snow dunes, it's all white, it's all like a winter wonderland. It's the-- Finland has won, like, two, three times in a row, the happiest country in the world. 29:36 But you have to come here to live, to experience your own reality. Yeah. Do you get what I mean? Because it's all, like, you see these kind of things and it's all, like, in the moment. It's fantasy. 29:48 "Oh, I want to come to Finland. I heard it's so peaceful there. I heard it's so happy there." Like, but then what plans do you have for the next 10 years? People don't think about that. 29:57 People think about, "Oh, what I wanna, I just wanna come and live, and maybe I want to just, you know, study, do my master's degree, get a job." But you, you find yourself doing the same thing for, you haven't grown. 30:09 Mm-hmm. You might fall into a very messy job. Like, you might be cleaning, and you'll be cleaning for the next 10 years or five years, and you, it's just like a, you know, hamster wheel. You're just there every day. 30:20 Yeah. You wake up every morning and you're stuck. You can't go anywhere. There are many people like that now, that they didn't have that plan, so they cannot es- they cannot escape. 30:28 They're already stuck in the nine-to-five hamster wheel. So that's just my advice pretty much, is don't think about tomorrow or just the moment, like what you wanna do right now and escape. Yeah. 30:40 But just have that long-term plan. I think that's the advice, or that's what I would ask anybody that is intending to migrate to anywhere in the Nordics pretty much, Finland included, of course. Yeah. That's just it. 30:54 Thank you so much. This has been really good. And thanks for being so transparent and just say it as it is. [laughs] Thank you for having me today. And that's it. 31:03 Thank you so much for always just kind of staying all the way to the end. I hope you enjoyed the conversation with me and Anne. Um, if you know someone who find this useful, please share it with them. 31:13 Follow us on YouTube. Give us a like on Substack. Um, we're also, we're also on Spotify and Apple Podcasts, so please follow us on those channels too. Leave a comment, ask us questions. 31:23 If you have someone who could be a guest, please, you know, send them my way. Thank you so much for all your support, and have a beautiful day. [outro jingle]
