Transcript 0:00 Anna's episode was a good one because we explored, you know, the differences between the Canadian culture and the Ukrainian culture. Some of the differences she talked about, I'm not kinda surprised that they exist. 0:10 I feel like almost every country will have that for Canada, which is basically the speed at which things are done. Everything takes time. To see a doctor takes time. I mean, everything takes time. 0:23 Well, I'll let Anna talk about that. This waiting, uh, waiting time on, uh, on anything. Like, if whatever you need, you just need to wait. 0:32 Or like, uh, it's always a, a big, um, time for approval, and even if we have in the business, so we have, uh, customers in Canada, and we have, uh, customers in US. So in US, they make decisions really quickly. 0:44 Yes, yes, no, no. Here, they can, like, you need to wait for his, uh, email, for the client email, like, for two weeks. 0:54 Let's say we had, like, a client, we just, just signed up the contract, like, two weeks ago, but they even still have not gave us any access to anything because just, like, you know, just need to wait. I don't know. 1:07 I don't know. Like, but for me, it's like, come on, I need [chuckles] I need the speed. I can't wait. [intro jingle] Hey, everyone. Welcome back to the Newcomers Podcast. 1:23 This is Dozie Onyegbula, I'm your host, and today I have with me Anna Otroshchenko. Did I get the name right? [chuckles] Almost, yeah. Almost? But you're very close. No, I will try, I will try again. Anna Otroshchenko. 1:36 Oh, yeah. That's, uh, sounds much better. [chuckles] Yeah. So she's from Ukraine, and she's been in Canada for, like, almost five years. In July, it will be five years. July, five years. How does it feel? 1:47 Like, do you feel like, "Okay, I can understand this country now," or do you feel like, "Hmm, I'm still finding my way"? Uh, I feel like home, actually. 1:59 It's, uh, yeah, I feel very comfortable, and, uh, yeah, I feel really good. I feel like I'm on my place, and, uh, I know that Canada could not be a limit. 2:11 Uh, so when you immigrate, so, like, from, uh, one, like, your country to another country, then when you start your new life, um, 2:21 it's actually your mind is changing, and your mindset is changing, so you're like, um, begin to be more adaptive. And then you understand, like, if you can... 2:32 uh, if you did it once, you can do it twice, and then it would be easier for you, and you just understand, like, the world is open to you. So it's, it's not a limit, actually. 2:41 [chuckles] So do-- Like, now that you say that, do you plan to immigrate again and leave Canada at some point? Uh, no, no, no. 2:48 I'm not planning right now, uh, any, uh, like, uh, moving to another countries or to another city. 2:55 I feel really good here, but I'm just saying that, um, I just don't like in my life just to be like, "This is it, and this is till the end." Or if you- [chuckles]... 3:05 buy, like, a house, this is forever, and you'd need to live here, like, 100 years. No, it's not my case. 3:11 So I'm not, like, planning, like, to, for example, like, to do a job, like, till the end of your life or to live in this city till the end of the life. 3:19 So I'm just kind of, uh, try to be very flexible, and if I see some good opportunities and if I change my mind, I'm just going with it. I'm going with the flow, and I'm don't put myself any restrictions. Great. 3:33 Now, just, just staying on, staying on the, the idea that you feel at home. So, like- Mm-hmm... I've spoken to a couple of people who all... who say- Mm-hmm... 3:41 they just feel like when you immigrate, like, you're, you're never really at home. Like, you're always- Mm-hmm. Um, you always feel there's a part of you that is your original country and a part of you that is here. 3:53 Mm-hmm. And so I'm just trying to dig a bit, a bit deeper into when you say, "I feel at home." Like, so what does that, what does that mean for you when you say, "I feel at home"? 4:01 Oh, because, uh, actually I realized, um, that home is actually where you are. It's not the location. It's not the country. Uh, it's not, uh, like, the borders. It's not even the people. It's you. 4:18 Uh, because wherever you move, like, whatever country you are, you can create your home there. 4:25 So, uh, there is kind of a lot of tips, uh, uh, and tricks from how I, I achieved this, but I understood that actually, uh, you are home, and, uh, this is the most important, where you, uh, are comfortable right now, this could be your home. 4:42 So it-- I can move another country, and this could be my home. So home for me, it's where I am and where I feel comfortable, and my goal is to make my life comfortable in the environment I live at. 4:55 So this is actually the secret for me. So [chuckles] yeah, so when, uh, people asking me, like, uh, "Do you miss, like, Ukraine? Do you miss your home?" And I said, "No, I don't," because I have a beautiful life here. 5:09 I, I surrounded myself, um, with, uh, beautiful people. I have a, like, a business. I have friends. Um, uh, I have, uh, hobbies. Uh, I, I adapted to society. 5:22 Like, I'm living my, like, beautiful life, so why should I miss my home? My, my home is where I am. 5:28 So yeah, so that's why, uh, I don't have those issues like, um, I miss my home because I think, um, that it's more about, like, people that couldn't find themselvesThat, uh, are sticking maybe like to their community because I think that this is very important rule. 5:47 So if you're planning to move to another country, don't stick only to your community. Don't find, uh, like for example, in my case, don't be friends only with Ukrainians. Don't live in Ukrainian community. 5:59 Don't go to the Ukrainian job, uh, or to Ukrainian employers because I know there is some... Like for example, in Toronto, there it's really huge diaspora of Ukraine, especially now when the war started. 6:11 We have more and more Ukrainians, and, uh, we have like a kind of areas where most of the Ukrainians live, and some of them are never even learn English because they don't need it. 6:21 So they want go to Ukrainian shop, uh, like store. They, uh, have, uh, all the Ukrainian services if they need. Uh, they have Ukrainian family, fam- uh, like friends, then employer and that's it. 6:34 So you kind of brought Ukraine to Canada and try to create like a little Ukraine, but then you will never be happy because, uh, uh, more I hear from those people that something is always bad and there are a lot of complaints about this and they're like this and this and this because it's actually, it's 6:53 their responsibility. And I think, uh, each person should understand like when they are moving, they should, uh, adapt. They should integrate to new society. 7:03 They should accept the rules, uh, and they should try to understand how other like people are living because I think Canada is a perfect, uh, place for, and it's very immigrant-friendly and, um, there is so much, uh, actually to learn here, especially if we're talking about other immigrants. 7:24 So I would suggest like be-- like find friends like, like different nationalities. 7:29 It's so cool like to learn different cultures, traditions, try different food, like just develop yourself, explore, explore the world, and I think Canada is the perfect place, uh, actually to explore yourself and the world around you. 7:45 So you don't need to go like to, let's say Colombia, because there is a lot of, uh, people from Colombia, right? And you can try Colombian food. You can go to Colombian restaurant. 7:54 You can find, uh, a lot of Colombian clubs, and then this, uh, dance salsa, let's, uh, let, let's say, right? 8:00 So you don't even need to go there because Canada has already given it to you, so why should we not embrace it? Um, yeah. So this is like my kind of philosophy that helped me to create my home here. I really like that. 8:14 Um, and I think I'm gonna take that advice for myself too. I mean, I do a pretty good job of integrating across the, the s- the sphere or the myself influence of people I know that are different kind of immigrants. 8:25 Um- Mm-hmm. Yeah, I think that's really good advice. Just, um, staying, not really staying on that, but kind of extending the question a bit and asking, um, so how was it settling in? 8:37 Because we, we-- I like the way you're thinking, your philosophy. Mm-hmm. So like I'd just like to know like how did, how fast did you settle in? You think you settled in pretty fast? Yes. 8:45 Yes, because I'm that type of people, like, you know, uh, I really like-- I'll just give you the example. Uh, I really love New York, and I... There is two categories of people. 8:54 Uh, so some people say, "Oh, I hate New York. There is everywhere is garbage, uh, like rats. It's so crowded." And I see like, and I think in New York, oh my God, it's so beautiful. So many, um, art galleries. 9:07 So many, like so deep culture. So beaut- so many beautiful buildings. Uh, so many fashion and, uh, like very attractive people. Like the rhythm, the, like the atmosphere. It's like driving me. So this is New York for me. 9:24 So like, you know, uh, I try m- to focus only on positive sides. Of course, I'm realistic, right? 9:31 I know that there is a lot of negative sides, a lot of like something that I'm not used to it, new rules, um, and, uh, everything is new, right? 9:41 A new environment that I need to adapt, and something could be, of course, challenging. But I'm always try to focus on good and to, and you know what's, uh, 9:53 when you are very like positive-minded, you will get more those type of people on your way. That's, that's a rule. 10:01 And if you will be like with all, if you will ki- come like to the world with all of your kindness and positivity, you will definitely get more and more, uh, nice people on your way that eventually will help you, will guide you, and just become a good, um, 10:20 uh, li- like a friends. So that's why it wasn't challenging at all. For me, it was like, "Oh my God, I'm in Canada. I love it. I love this and this and this." 10:29 And you know, like so many s- beautiful, uh, things started to happen. So we met so many like beautiful and kind people h- that just was, uh, "Do you need help? I can help you with that. Do you need this? 10:42 Do you need this? I will help you," and this and this. So it was like, oh my God, like where I am, like, you know, so many good people and everyone trying to give free stuff, help. Like, "I can drive you. 10:53 I can give you this. I can give you this." And I was, "Oh my God, I'm in heaven." 10:57 [laughs] So this is was my like, uh, like, um, adapting, and also it was very cool, uh, because when, um, I moved here, uh, I decided first to live in Airbnb. 11:10 Uh, so then I had a month, uh, of observation, uh, where to find an apartment, uh, what area I like, and just like to explore more the city. So I lived in a very, like very interesting family. 11:25 Uh, so they had an open relationship. So I lived in a, with a man that he has a wife, um, but both of them has boyfriend and girlfriends. 11:34 And they had, in the house, there were like kind of five dogs of each of their person [laughs].So it was like, okay, like in Ukraine we doesn't really have like those type of, uh, things, but it was like, okay, this, uh, this sounds very interesting. 11:50 Like, let me, uh, like know more details about it. Then the, it was like a pride month and we went to the LGBT parade. Uh, so it was like, oh my God, it was so much fun. 12:02 Like so many people, uh, like, um, doing crazy stuff, but there were like so much love in it, so much happiness. And yeah, so it was like first couple of days like, oh my God, I'm definitely in, in Canada [laughs] 12:16 and I love it. I love it. I like, I like that. I like that. Um, so now thinking about, like you started talking about a bit about cultural differences, um- Mm-hmm... 12:29 like how have you, like how, what are the ones that have stood out to you and how have you managed to just navigate them? 12:34 I mean, I almost guessed that already, just think, just looking at your personality and how you talk- Mm-hmm... how you're talking about these things. Mm-hmm. I also feel like there's a good story in there. 12:42 So just tell me like how, how have you managed the cultural differences? Oh. Because I know Ukraine is probably very different from Canada. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We're, uh, definitely different. 12:50 Uh, what I, for example, for me was the challenge, um, is, um, to understand their mindset, the Canadians' mindset. Uh, of course a lot of the, uh, the Canadians are like very polite, right? Mm. 13:05 And they are very like, um, open, right? But sometimes, uh, for example, in Ukraine, when you said this, I will do this, it means that I will do it, and it probably I will do it or this evening or tomorrow morning. 13:19 Here, when people saying, "I will do it," it means that they could never do it. And if they say, "I will email you like, uh, tomorrow," they can email you in two months or never email. 13:32 Uh, so this was like for me, and I, I had so many like cases because, um, me and my partner were doing, uh, starting business here in Canada, so that was like, oh my God. 13:43 And, uh, I, and I was like that type of person that if I said so, I will do it because I gave my word. 13:50 And this, uh, uh, here I understand that it's not always meaning that people are just want to be, like, look very kind, but they are s- kind, but they just like, you know, they just talk with you and then they just immediately forget about you and then just disappear and that's it. 14:07 And I like, um, there was a challenge for me like, uh, trying to understand like, okay, uh, Anna, don't be mad on them or don't be sad. This is how it just is. Just embrace it, and if they will help you, that's fine. 14:22 If they won't help you, just accept it and move forward. So for me, this was the, the biggest like, oh my God, like, uh, why is everything taking so long? 14:31 This was the same, a- another thing actually, when, for example, in Ukraine, you can, um, find, uh, you can do any appointment you want, uh, like tomorrow or in two days. 14:43 Here, I need to wait on any appointment like for weeks, months, or a year. I remember when I went to, uh, a family doctor, so he needed to refer me to the surgery, uh, surgeon, uh, doctor. 14:57 So then, uh, like he said, uh, "Anna, but you need to wait." I said, "Okay." So then I moved to Toronto, uh, because I lived in Halifax for, for a while. I moved to Toronto, and then they called me in a year and a half. 15:10 Uh, "Hi, Anna. We like in, uh, next week there will be an appointment in Halifax with your surgeon." [laughs] I said, "Thank you. I don't need it anymore." So yeah. God, yeah. So this is for me, it's a challenge. Yeah. 15:24 The appointment one is different. If you want to have something quickly, it's, it's not possible to get anything quickly. We need to wait. 15:30 [laughs] Now, now, out of these things, what do you think was your biggest challenge while trying to settle down? Like which of them was your biggest challenge? 15:38 Uh, probably like this waiting, uh, waiting time on a- a- anything. Like if whatever you need, you just need to wait. 15:46 Or like, uh, it's always a, a big, um, time for approval and even if, uh, we have in the business, so we have, uh, customers in Canada and we have, uh, customers in US. So in US they make decisions really quickly. 15:59 Yes, yes, no, no. Here they can like, you need to wait for his, uh, email, for the client email, like for two weeks. 16:08 Let's say we had like a client, we just, just signed up the contract like two weeks ago, but they even still have not gave us any access to anything because just like, no, just need to wait. I don't know. I don't know. 16:22 Like, but for me it's like, come on, I need [laughs] I need the speed. I can't wait. So it's still challenging for me, but at least I understand the processes and how it's, uh, going. Okay. 16:35 Um, how-- so just let's dig a bit into your, how you feel. How, how have you managed to, you know, handle that? Like, so how, what's the process in which you just handle that? 16:45 Is it just saying to yourself, "Okay, I understand," or do you have other things you use to cope with just adjusting to the culture? No, it's more like work on your personality, I think. 16:55 Uh, it's more just you need like, you know, you need to understand, uh, this like, uh, rule from therapy, right? I'm okay and you're okay, right? 17:04 Uh, so you just need to understand that this is how it is and just accept it. If you can't accept it, uh, then you just, uh, find another way, right? 17:15 Um, or find another solution or just say, "Sorry, but I can't wait it," and move forward. But you just, you can't, um, change the person and the- you can't just change the, the, the mentality, right? 17:29 And the processes that was like established through the years, right? 17:34 Uh, you can like, uh, do whatever you can from your side, but if you will not, uh, if you are not receiving the results you want, just don't, um-Be disappointed. 17:47 Uh, so like, uh, my, my, my, all of them, also of one of my favorite rules, like less expe- uh, less expectations, less disappointment. 17:58 Because if you put a high, high expectations and then you don't have it, then it's a really, really big disappointed. 18:06 So that's why I'm trying not just to put any expectations, so in the end I, I don't have any disappointments. You know what? I feel like I'm in a therapy session and you're the therapist like [laughs] Yeah, yeah. 18:18 Immigrant, immigrant therapist session. Thera- yeah, yeah. [laughs] Like it's proper immigrant therapy, honestly. Yeah. 18:24 Because, yeah, as an immigrant, like you're just-- you're dealing with so many feelings and so many things, like you don't understand what's going on. 18:30 You're, you have expectations based on where you're coming from because like, yeah, you're right. We, as immigrants, it's so easy to say, "In Nigeria, this is how things used to happen." 18:40 So you expect it to happen like that here. Mm-hmm. But like you said, just, uh, you can't change the process and you can't change the culture. You can- No... not just you can, you can change culture yourself. 18:49 It's just- Yeah... it is what it is. Like it's you, like you said. I like the, I like when you say it's work on your own person, not trying to change the other person. 18:57 It's actually you that is the most important thing in that equation. Yes, that's true. Now, I know you say you've pretty settled pretty, 19:06 pretty well, and you know, you've said some really good things about, you know, b- uh, here being home. But like you don't-- so you don't miss anything about Ukraine? Uh, what I miss about Ukraine? Mm. 19:21 Of course, like my family, right? But, uh, but my family is like I, I can talk with them very often. Uh, I can say friends, right? 19:30 But I have a lot of friends here, so I also ca- uh, can and, um, keeping some relationship, uh, in my, in, uh, at home. 19:39 Uh, but what I miss there, it's like the speed of making the decisions and the speed of converting, uh, action to result. This is what I mi- I miss a, a lot. 19:51 [laughs] And kind of like, um, you, you can always find an open store. You can, for example, buy, um, I don't know, uh, like, uh, liquor everywhere you want, anytime you want. 20:05 But here, like in Canada, it's always a rule. 20:07 Like in Halifax it was like, oh my God, before the long weekend, there were like a line of, um, kilometer of people waiting just to buy an alcohol because there will be a long weekend. 20:19 In Ukraine, you will never see it because everything, you will still kind of find a solution where to go, how to buy, like, you know, there will be always something open. 20:29 But, uh, like in, in Toronto it feels, uh, there is kind of a little com- like Arabic stores and we have Chinese store that are kind of always open on Christmas or other holidays. 20:40 But usually like that's closed and that's it. [laughs] And if we're talking about other services, they're also closed. Like everything is closed. 20:49 So maybe I miss kind of this type of freedom that I have a, a quick access to everything. Mm. And food, yeah, I miss, uh, food like but more home food, not like because in, um, 21:01 in Canada, like there are so many immigrants, right? And each of them are bringing their own culture, own cuisine, and it's so tasty. I love like I, I love Asian. I love, um, like all type of Asian food. 21:14 I love Indian food. I like Ethiopian, like all of this type of different foods just like crazy. So yeah. So that's why maybe home food is something that I miss. 21:26 I do think that just listening to you, I think you're the, you're, you're the perfect definition of what an immigrant should be like because you somehow have a way, you found a way to basically just accept where you are- Mm-hmm... 21:41 and take it in, uh, which is one thing I think most immigrants struggle with, just accepting where you are and just taking it all in. Mm-hmm. You know what? Now, just a b- it's, 21:52 it's a interesting question based because based of what you've said previously, but have you ever regretted being here at all? No. Never. No, because I'm trying to take responsibility on my actions. 22:05 So if, if I made that decision, there were of course there is a pros of cons, right? In each country. And I also realized in, in that, uh, Canada is not perfect, right? 22:15 There is, um, everywhere there will be pros and cons, but you just need to realize what is the most important for you. If this is important for you, uh, so then go there. 22:27 But then just know that there is other side of it. Are you okay with that? And if okay, move it, accept it, and live your life. 22:35 But, uh, there is no reason like for me just to go another country and then say, "Oh, I don't like this and this. Oh my God." I, I'm not like a, a drama queen, so I will never do the, like this type of drama. 22:47 So if you are here, just try to, uh, make, make it work, right? And, uh, yeah, so you, you moved here because you had a reason to move here, right? If you're still complaining, go back. Don't complain here. 23:05 You, you are in a new country. Acce- you need to accept rule of the country where you live it. 23:12 You need to accept that there will be high taxes, there will be this type of rules that you need to, to like, to live with, right? Don't complain on that. 23:23 If you don't like high taxes, stay in your country and don't pay taxes at all, right? So this is like my view on that, so I never regret it. Um, never. I think everything in our life is just like, uh, on time, 23:38 and, uh, we are here because we are ready to be here at this moment. 23:44 And yeah, I think everything has its own time and, uh-This is how it should be, because then we ex- we have in our own experience, we're learning from our mistakes, and if I say, "Oh, I will, uh, probably I will do th- I won't do that and that and that," then it will change, uh, a lot, uh, in my life, right? 24:07 And then probably if I will go back and change this and this and this, I will not be where I am, right? Uh, so yeah. Uh, no, I probably don't regret about anything. [laughs] I try, like I no- don't, do not regret. 24:24 [laughs] That's so beautiful- Mm-hmm... to be honest. Like that's really beautiful. 24:28 And I think like just my last question for you is, again, it's, again, it's like I say, it's an ironic question based off all you've said, but I really wanna just know, like if you think about like all that has happened in the past five years since you moved, is there anything, 24:45 anything at all you would have done differently with hindsight? Uh, hmm. [laughs] I don't know. 25:00 I don't know, actually, because I'm always like, you know, I'm that type of person that always try to explain myself, h- why it happened and why I need it. Uh, so I don't know. I think I did everything, uh, right. 25:17 Uh, yeah, because, uh, I said maybe, I was thinking maybe I should move here like e- earlier, right? But then maybe I would be not be ready f- like fully. 25:28 Uh, then I thought like maybe I should move from Halifax, uh, faster, like not to stay there like more than two years and just to stay there like, um, one year. 25:40 Uh, there is also like should I like, um, yeah, maybe think earlier like maybe to, I don't know, to buy something or like to like some... 25:50 like but it's something like, you know, this kind of small things that it's not really, um, major and it's n- does not affect your life tremendously. 25:59 So yeah, I ca- I can't reme- maybe like le- eat less, uh, junk food because, uh, here, like my, my weight is like that. 26:08 [laughs] I'm losing it, then I'm gaining a lot, then I'm losing it and like j- this junk food is like driving me crazy because it's like kind of propaganda here of this junk food. 26:19 Like, "Eat me, eat me, McDonald's, Wendy's, Subway." Everyone is saying, "Eat me, eat me, eat me." It's like everywhere. [laughs] So maybe this, like eat le- less junk food. Yeah. Yeah. 26:34 [laughs] You know, I s- I honestly, I'm gonna call this session immigrant therapy, like that's, uh, 'cause that's really what it is. Like it's, I really love how you approach your life, to be honest. 26:44 Like it's, it's perfect. I mean, like yeah, there's nothing that's perfect, but I really lo- love your approach because it just means that more often than not, you're in control. Yeah. 26:55 And I think that's the most, that's one thing every immigrant needs, just to know that you're in control. Because 27:01 it's the one thing you can control yourself, because every other thing looks like it's out of control because you're trying the midst of chaos. 27:08 You're trying to settle in, you're trying to find your way, you're trying to understand what's going on with the industry or the country or the system or the, the schools or the culture, like and then you're just like, "Okay, but just remember you're in control of yourself." 27:19 Yes, it's true. Yeah. Thank you so much, Anna. Like this has been really good. Um, I love where we took this conversation. Um, yeah, thanks for coming on the Newcomers Podcast. 27:31 [laughs] Yeah, sorry, no drama, no complaints. [laughs] I love it, to be honest, like- I know, like-... I love it... yeah, I, yeah, yeah, yeah. I love it. 27:39 Yeah, of course it, again, like, uh, Canada has their own, uh, advantages, disadvantages, but, uh, yeah, as you said, like we are managing our life, we are controlling our life, and we can make everything to be successful and everything in our hands. 27:58 And, uh, yeah, we just need to rely, first of all, um, only on ourselves and, uh, like embrace, mm, 28:08 the, the life that Canada is li- giving you, like the possibilities because, um, actually everyone is equal here, and it's only depend on your mindset and how you... 28:21 Because I think, and I'm sure, that everyone can have success, get a success, and achieve their goals. You just need to work hard and, uh, and you just, you need to have a goal and just go for it. Yeah. Great. Great. 28:39 Thank you so much, and with that, that's a wrap. Thank you, everyone. That was therapy. Honestly, that's how I felt. That's how I felt. I when I, when I finished talking to Anna, like that was therapy, 28:51 and I hope you felt the same way for you too because I really like how she thinks about life. Because yes, you know, as an immigrant, the truth is everything is in your control. Like it's in your control. 29:03 The, the things you can't control, you can't control them, but the things you can control is you, how you react to things, what you do, the opportun- the opportunities you take advantage of. 29:14 It's all in your hands, people. It's all in your hands. So thank you again for listening. As usual, please share with anyone who would find this useful. Please follow us on YouTube, 29:26 sign up s- to our Substack, you know, and just share with people. Thank you, and have a beautiful day. [outro jingle]
