Transcript 0:00 What do you know now that you wish you'd known on day one in Canada? Something I wish I did more, and I'm learning it a daily basis, is, like, give yourself more credit. 0:09 Like, I understand that there are so many people who are immigrants. 0:14 There are so many people who move, uh, from their homeland to a different place, either for more opportunity, either for love, either for searching their identity, or whatever the reason is. But, 0:25 um, it's already a big, it's already a big deal. This is already a big deal. 0:31 The fact that you decided to do that, and you came here or wherever, um, and now you're going to kind of uproot your life and- [gentle music] 0:48 Welcome back to Newcomers Podcast, people, where I explore what it means to be an immigrant with immigrants like myself. Today, I'm talking to Vaishali Gauba, 0:59 who moved to Canada about three and a half years ago, and, um, who has a PR FM now, which is pretty cool. And so, like, part of the conversation here for me is I want to get a sense of identity. 1:11 You know, how, how do you find id- your identity when you move abroad for love? 1:14 So, you know when you move to another country because you are in love and your husband was, lives, lives in that country, then you move, you move because of your husband. And we'll probably kick off with that. 1:24 Basically, is you had mentioned in the pre-sh- in the pre-show when we were planning for this, like, a lot of people struggle with this where it's like you move to be with someone you love, and then when you get there, y- you weren't really thinking about 1:39 all the things that come with immigration. Mm-hmm. All you were just thinking about was, "Oh yeah, my husband, my partner is over there and I just wanna go." And then you get there, and then you realize that, "Okay." 1:52 [both laughing] So, I mean, let's kick off with that, Vaishali. How did that feel? Like, honestly- Yeah... how was that? Um, you know, so, so let me just say something. 2:06 So I, I moved h- I moved to Canada as a student to pursue my master's. Um, but my, uh, boyfriend at the time was-- He had already moved here from India for his MBA. 2:19 So, of course, I was moving here for my master's, but the objective also was that, um, you know, I would move where he i- where he is, and, um, in the next four or five months, we were supposed to get married anyway. 2:30 So, um, yeah. So, so I wasn't-- [chuckles] Let me clarify. I wasn't just moving for my boyfriend. [laughs] I was, I was moving because I knew that soon I'm going to be married to this person. Um, but you're so right. 2:44 Uh, at the time when I was moving especially, it was just a couple of years out of COVID, um, there was still, you know, uh, visa processing and things like that were still taking very long. And, um, 2:57 and when you're waiting for so long for, like, your visa and your paperwork to come through, you just try to focus on the positives, right? Mm-hmm. Like, you're just trying to focus on what's going well. 3:08 And yes, like, my focus was, "Well, I'm gonna get there. I'm gonna start my master's. I'm going to, you know, get to reunite." And those were the immediate feelings in my mind. 3:18 I wasn't thinking about anything beyond that. Um, of course, I, I would be leaving my family in India behind, my parents, and that's something that was on my mind. 3:27 Um, and I'd already lived in the US, so, so I must clarify that. You know, at the time when I was living in India, I'd been living in India for five years. Before that, I'd already lived in the US for five years. 3:38 I moved to the US as an undergraduate student to study journalism. Okay. So I wasn't super scared about the move because I'd done it at a young age, um, and I was like, "I can handle this," you know? 3:50 "I'm an adaptable person. I've moved twice already, India to US and US back to India." Um, so yeah. So, and then I got here. 3:59 I almost immediately was about to start my master's, um, you know, got reunited, and there was, like, so many friends to meet. We had our housewarming, like, so many things going on, wedding planning. 4:10 So you're-- It's kind of like the adrenaline of all of these things where you really don't even have a minute to just think about how your life has changed, right? Yeah. 4:21 And so I wanna say for the first six, seven months, that's all I did. I was mostly just excited about everything. [chuckles] Um, and only then, um, you know, 4:35 slowly it started to hit me that, um, "Okay, this is my life now, um, but what's really happening?" Right? Like, "What is my identity?" 4:46 My, my husband had already been here for some time, so he had built a good social circle. Um, you know, he had his job. 4:54 Um, thankfully, I, I was doing my master's, so I was able-- And this was an in-person master's, so I was able to meet some people, uh, as part of that cohort. 5:03 Um, and this was, you know, bang in the middle of downtown Toronto, so good place for a newcomer to be. It's- Yeah... it's, it's a lot of opportunities to meet people. 5:12 So I actually would say that it was after my master's even ended in 2023 that I got more of a reality check. Um, that's when I started feeling, "Who are my friends? What am I doing here?" 5:26 Um, you know, "What is my path now?" Like, my master's is almost done. Um, you start thinking about your work permit and all of those paperwork things. 5:34 So to answer your question, how did it feel, I think it doesn't sink in for a while. Again, everyone's situation is different. 5:41 I was fortunate enough that I was already moving here, um, to be with my husband who had-- who already knew the lay of the land, so it wasn't, like, a fully new place for me. 5:51 Also, having lived in New York and on the East Coast of the United States, I was quite familiar with, um, with the differences in culture, how people are, and I also wanna say quite comfortable. 6:01 I'd done this in the US by then, so I w- I was comfortable with all of those changes. Um, so when it did hit me, I, again, I don't think it hits you, like, one day and, like, your life changes. No. Yeah. 6:14 I think it hits you in, in phases every single day, where you're like-Oh, what is my identity here? How do I build my friendships? How do I build my career, right? 6:26 Because yes, I was pursuing my master's, but, you know, before that I was already working in India, so I did in a way leave that behind. 6:34 Um, so I think it's like this leaving behind feeling that can start to mess with your head. Like, am I leaving something behind for the other person, right? Am I like the- Yeah... 6:45 am I like the trailing, uh, person, right? Like, am I the one who's making all the sacrifices, whereas this person, you know, just is doing what they want to do? 6:55 So I think, I think it, those feelings can be a little bit, um, um, you know, unproductive, and I would, I would say, like, they, they don't do anyone any good. 7:05 So I don't think it's, it's worth thinking that you were left behind or you have to build your life around your partner, right? 7:13 I think what's important to know is that there's so many things you can do which are, which are yours. They're your identity. Um, I do understand that everybody's situation is different, right? 7:23 There are immigrants all over the world. Some countries have different rules for dependents, um, right? Thankfully, Canada, 7:30 uh, even though I was not a dependent, I was moving from a student permit to a work permit, but Canada still has a slightly more friendlier, you know, uh, friendlier immigra- immigration rules. 7:40 So, and I had lived in the US as well, right? So, um, so I think that I, everybody's situation is different, and it's so personal, but in my experience, it hit me in phases. 7:52 And yes, I took time to just process it and be like, "This is not working out so much for me. I really need friends of my own." So the first feelings were, like, 8:03 accepting it, processing it, and then after that I thought about, okay, what can I really do about it? Uh, and al- also, like, having an open communication channel was very important for me with my partner. Mm-hmm. 8:12 On the days if, if I felt like, "What am I doing here?" You know? I, I wanted to communicate those feelings to him, not in a way that it's like, [laughs] "It's, it's your fault." Yeah. 8:24 I, I don't think I've ever felt that. But in a way that they know that, you know, these are things that you're thinking about, so. Yeah. Yeah. So mix- mixed feelings there, yeah. Yeah. 8:35 I mean, I would, I would challenge you though and just say- Mm-hmm... like, I agree, and I don't know if I agree with the fact that- Oh... 8:42 that the fact that you live in the States prepares you for that, 'cause I mean, I wonder y- when you moved to the States, you were sure you're gonna go back home, right? You kinda knew you were gonna go back home. 8:51 No, actually. I wasn't. Ah, okay. Oh, okay. I, um, I had, uh, I studied journalism, um, and business management, and I wanted to be a journalist, and I, um, I did everything, uh, to become a journalist. 9:05 So I worked at the student newspaper, then I got internships at all of these, um, news, um, you know, news publications and newsrooms, television channels. 9:15 So my path was, like, really taking me where I wanted it to go, and I was, I was very, I was feeling very, um, blessed for it, but a- also I'd been working really hard for it. So, um, 9:28 so I would say that no, h- moving back to India after the US was not part of my plan. I really had my dream job and, um, at CBS News, and I was doing what I wanted to do. I was, I was young. 9:40 I mean, obviously I was younger, so I had m- like, a lot of enthusiasm, and I was willing to be at work whenever they wanted me to. I was al- I was willing to work more than 40 hours a week. 9:50 I was willing to do all the extra work that, like, helps you, you know, grow in your ranks. Yeah. And that's, that was out of sheer devotion and, um, you know, excitement for my career, like, for journalism. 10:02 That's, that's how much I wanted to do it. Um, I worked at The Stephen Colbert show, so I was getting, like, really amazing opportunities. Um, so no, it was not part of the plan to go back to India, but it happened. 10:13 Yeah. And, um, I had to deal with that. And I, um... So to answer your question, no, I wasn't going back to. I, I wasn't- Oh, okay... supposed to go back to India, yeah. Oh, okay. Yeah. 10:24 'Cause you know some- I always tell people that this, when you... 'Cause straight when you talk about leaving behind feeling- Hmm... 10:31 there's that thing where, like where, for example, let the, maybe the best example is a tourist. Like, so if I, if I went to visit India, for example. 10:38 Now in my head I kinda know I'm gonna go back to, come back to Calgary. Hmm. So I'm not worried. Mm-hmm. But if you went- Oh, okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, but when if you, if you go there and- Yeah... 10:47 there's no, there's no going back, like, then you're stuck in this limbo for a bit, 'cause you're like, "Okay, do I go back?" But I mean- Yeah... what are you even going back to? 10:56 Like, because you already said there that you're coming here. This is home now. Yeah. Like- Yes... but somehow your mind doesn't know where home is. It assumes that home is back there. And- Mm-hmm... so 11:11 it, it even leads to another question, which is now, lived in the US, wanted to stay there, didn't exactly work out. Moved back to India, spent some time in India, came back to Canada. Or rather, moved to Canada. Mm-hmm. 11:26 If you think about the Vaishali that moved to the US, came back to, went back to India, moved to Canada, who moved to Canada? The Indian Vaishali? [laughs] The Indian American, the Indian American Vaishali? 11:38 [laughs] Like, who moved to Canada? [laughs] Oh, that's such a great question. That is such a great question. I, I have to be honest and say I haven't ever thought about that. [laughs] That's okay. Um, 11:52 who moved to Canada? Um, I don't know. You know, there's parts of the US in me, I have to say that, because I moved there at such a formative age, right? 12:05 Like, um, late teens, early 20s, you're really just getting a sense of the world. Yeah. You're kind of, the first time that you're on your own, you don't have to, you know, take permission from your parents- Yes. 12:15 Oh, yeah... for anything. Oh yeah, oh, yeah. So much is changing. So the US left, um, you know, an impression on my mind, for sure. And I think one of the most, um-... 12:27 visible markers of that is [laughs] the way that I talk. So, um, I, [laughs] it's, it's very funny for me because I have a switch in my mind. 12:39 [laughs] When I talk to, when I ta- I talk differently, and I just mean accent-wise, like obviously- Yeah, I get, I, I get you... my English is my English. Yeah, I get you. Accent-wise. 12:48 And I, I think a lot, this happens to a lot of people who have lived in different parts of the world. Um, I will talk very differently to someone, uh, who's from India, just accent-wise. 12:59 Um, I developed this accent when I used to live in the US. It was very organic, so if anyone wants to, like, you know, hate me for it, I don't know. It was very organic. 13:09 Oh, that's- It happened, and then- Why, why would someone hate you for that? Like, mm, but- Because it's, you know, it's like dif- it's, like, different, it's like a switch. Like, I can do that, and I can do that. Um, 13:18 a- and by the way, um, in the US it was like, okay, it's, like, a part of, um, you want to kind of, like, assimilate in the culture. Then when I moved to India, I can't talk like this in India because uh-uh, you know? 13:33 No one's gonna get you. [laughs] Or they might, they might, they might look at me differently or treat me differently- Yeah, yeah... which is what I, which I don't want that. I'm, I'm an Indian. I'm a local. 13:42 I want to be treated like that, right? Uh, I also want to mention that I was a television, I was an on-air television journalist in India. So, what I'm saying and how I'm speaking is for everyone to see. 13:54 [laughs] Thankfully, I worked at an international news channel, so if I spoke in my American accent, uh, that was fine. Um, 14:07 so I think these are some markers of how the US has been, like, really embedded into my personality. That being said, do I relate to, you know, um, a lot of things about the American culture? No. 14:19 Like, I'm, I'm very much, uh, I'm very much an Indian at heart. Um, I relate most to Indian culture. That's how I grew up. Um, that's what I do now in terms of, like, festivals and things like that, right? 14:33 I mean, I, I celebrate everything, but what do I relate to most? It's, it's where I come from. So, I think the person who moved from India to Canada is very much Indian, but, 14:47 you know, her early 20s experiences are very much with her. 14:52 And by that, I mean, yes, the way that I speak, the way that I look at the world, because living in the US really taught me, um, you know, how to talk to people. 15:01 Um, and I, I understand there's, like, a small talk culture, but I also became, as a journalist, I also became really good at talking to people, even if they were strangers. Mm. 15:10 So I think those are skills that I took with me. In India, we don't have so much of a small talk culture. Yeah. So when I- Similar in Nigeria, too. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. 15:19 So when I, when I moved back to, w- not moved back, when I moved to Canada, you know, those switches just went on in me. Like, I could start conversations with people. 15:28 I knew, like, if I go into a coffee shop, I'm expected to make some small talk. So, um, yes. So in no way Indian American. 15:37 Indian, but with, you know, like, dashes and sprinkles of some rough, like, an Americanized version of, um, of myself, is what I have to say. But yeah, tried to take most of the good things that America taught me. 15:52 You know, how to make friends, how to talk to people. Um, what do the streets look like? [laughs] You know, the gridlock system. Yeah. 16:00 Um, the intersections, because Toronto and New York are a little bit similar in that sense. Um, yeah, so, so a mix of, of both. Yeah. Yeah. 16:09 The, I, I find you interesting because, you know, I'll just say this, and people who listen to this regularly have heard me say this a ton of times. Mm. I call immigrants in-betweeners. Mm. 16:20 So we're always in between cultures. Mm-hmm. So when I see someone like you now, who you've spent some time in between Indian and American culture, 16:29 now you're spending time in between, is it in between Canadian, American, Indian culture? Like, like, what are you really in between, really? Like, uh, it's like... And I think it's a- Mm... 16:40 superpower, basically, is the ability to kind of morph between cultures and adjust and a- adapt and be your s- be yourself, you know? Mm-hmm. 16:48 That's, which is, 'cause for me, yourself is what gets you going wherever you find, the environment you find yourself in. Mm-hmm. You know? So when you say that, I'm like, "Okay, so, so now is she... 16:58 So there's still the American part in you, or is there..." Because I don't think America and Canada are the same thing. I think they're very different cultures. No. And I realized that after moving to Canada. Yeah. 17:06 I'll be very honest. I think, uh, like any person who lives on the, um, eastern side of the world, you can tend to think that America and Canada are very similar, same continent. 17:19 Um, but after moving to Canada, I realize it's very different. Yeah, it's very, very different. Yeah. 17:24 So it's, it's, for me, it's like, okay, so has she dropped the American culture here now and taken on the Canadian one? Like, which thing? [laughs] And it's not a question you have to answer. 17:33 It's just the thoughts just going around in my head. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, I think the best way to look at it is just kind of, like, always evolving, um, taking the best things. 17:42 It doesn't even have to be, like, a culture thing, but taking the best things from people and what, um, what different places are teaching you. Like, I have m- I've met so many amazing people in Canada. 17:53 Um, and I'm really trying to take the best from them, and, um, that was sa- like, uh, a- like, different age groups when, like, different age groups for me when I was in the US versus when I'm in Canada now. 18:06 I also feel more, um, um, you know, like, self-assured as a person. Like- Mm... early 20s, very impressionable. You know, just, like, very hungry for all the opportunities- Mm... you can get. 18:19 Now I'm 31 years old, like, a little, I think a little bit differently as well. So I think it's so beautiful, like, what a place can do to you.Right? Yeah. Like, the things that you can learn. Yeah. 18:31 Um, both good and bad. Like, I think America really opened my eyes to a different type of world. Like, "Oh, I can have friends from all parts of the world?" Mm. That was not a possibility for me in India, right? 18:42 I can work at CBS News, I can work at CNBC, be in those newsrooms among people who have, like, decades of journalism experience. That was not an option for me in India. 18:52 Like, so, you know, but then, you know, my family's in India. It, it's a very rich culture that I get to learn from. Yeah. Um, and in Canada, how nice people have been here. 19:04 Um, you know, the, the kind of people that I've met, and I've seen a very small part of Canada so far. So I think what a place can give you, it's so beautiful. 19:13 It's, it's something that I'm learning, but I do think that living in these three countries has made me a very adaptable person. Yeah. Yeah. 19:23 Now just getting onto the point where you're settling in, and then we'll talk about what you do now. But getting to that point was, what was hard, what was easy? 19:32 Because you, you had your partner was here, and you had previous experience as an immigrant, but what was hard- Mm... what was easy? Mm. 19:39 And most importantly, were there things that were hard when you were settling to America, that you moved here and you thought they would be easy, but it- Mm... still turned out hard? Oh, mm-hmm. Good question. Um, 19:54 I'll talk about what was e- what was easy first. Sure. Um, moving to Canada, of course, we've covered the part that, like, my partner was already here. Um, something that was easier here was, um, 20:07 the transition from student to worker, um, and then to PR. Mm. Um, you know, uh, again, I have the support of my partner, so all of that was, uh, far easier to navigate than it was in the US. Um, 20:23 what was harder here? You know, I, I don't know if it was, like, harder, but, um, because I did it in the US, but... Or maybe I just have very faint memories from how I did it in the US, but, like, 20:38 having to, like, cook on my own [laughs] again. [laughs] That felt a little bit of a- Why? Why? I guess I just, I mean, I, I, I do cook for fun as well, so I, it's not like I wasn't cooking in India. But, um, 20:55 but I don't know. Why did it feel hard? I don't know. I guess, um, initially life was very busy. Uh, school, everything else. I was a PR consultant in India, so I continued doing that. 21:06 So there was school, there was work, there was moving to a new country, all of that, right? Um, so I'm not sure why. I think I just lost, I just lost the practice of it, right? So just to start doing that again. 21:17 Again, it's not hard at all, and once you do it, you realize how therapeutic it is. You know, you realize all the good things that it does. Like, "Oh, I finally got a moment to myself," and all of those things. 21:29 But initially, I would say, like, getting used to, like, you know, the cooking and all, um, took me some time, but not anymore. You know, um, three and a half years in, I, I don't feel like that anymore. 21:40 Initially, I felt that was harder. Um, and then what did I think, uh, would, could be easier but was still hard? Um, maybe, like, friendships. Because- [laughs] 21:58 Because of so many things. I think, like, different stages of life, right? Yeah. Like, when you're in-- I moved to the US, um, to go to a university. 22:07 Like, I went to a really big school, so, like, it was, you could, you could meet people from everywhere all the time. Yeah. So that, you know, here, yes, I, I still was doing my master's, but we were a smaller cohort. 22:19 Uh, people have different priorities, uh, while they were doing their master's. So, 22:25 uh, yes, I thought it would be like, you know, very easy to make friends, and I think also, like, adult friendships are so much different, right? 22:32 Like, that's not something that I was even ever thinking about when I was in the US. Like, adult friendships? Like, no, friends. We all take it for granted, to be honest. Like- Yeah... we all take it for granted. 22:41 Exactly. Yeah. So that's what I thought would be easy, but was harder. Yeah. Especially because you're, there's different context, different nuances. Yeah. Like you- Different nuances. 22:50 You have different priorities in life. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, and then you're, you're in this checklist of things you need to do to settle in. You need to move from- Yeah... student to p- to work permit to PR. Yeah. Mm-hmm. 22:59 You have to get a house. You have to settle in. Yeah. And the other people are like, "Oh, yeah, let's go have a drink." 23:04 You're like, "I, I don't know if I can spare [laughs] one hour to have a drink with you, 'cause I need to get down-" Yeah... "and go do X." Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And 23:15 also realizing that, um, you can meet people around shared interests and shared activities. Uh, I always wanted to do that, but it took me some time, right? 23:25 Like, it took me, um, some time till I, like, joined a book club, until I joined, like, a g- the gardening community in my building. 23:33 You find out about these things, and you start making time for these things, and then I think it, like, really hits you that, yes, you need to make these efforts if you- Yeah... 23:40 really want those, um, you know, long-lasting friendships. So, yeah. I want to go back to something you just said. You said earlier, and I, I wonder, 'cause you got me thinking about that. Yeah. 23:52 When you talked about the food thing. Yeah. Was that a thing of where you are missing co- your con- the, your, the communal life you have back home? 23:59 Because you know how cooking back home is almost like a community thing. Mm-hmm. I mean, for most of us in the so- in the south of the- Mm-hmm... Ni- I mean, Nigeria, India, like- Yeah... 24:08 yeah, you cook alone sometimes, but then when you're cooking, there's family or something. And I wonder- Mm... whether that was you, that was your- Mm... brain- Mm-hmm... 24:15 or your subconscious reacting to the fact that you were alone here, which is why you stayed away from cooking. I mean, it's just a thought. Mm-hmm. You know? [laughs] Well, let me, let me correct you. 24:25 I didn't stay away from it. [laughs] I had to do it still.I could not stay away from it. Well, does that- Except this time I had someone to share it with, right? Like we could take- Mm-hmm... 24:37 turns and that kind of a thing. Um, but you're right. I, I do think that there was an element of, again, because of being so excited to move here, you don't fully think about what you're leaving behind in your country. 24:51 Yeah. For, for me, because I'd moved from the US to India, and I lived in India for a good amount of time, like five years, those five years had given me more rootedness and more appreciation for my culture- Yeah... 25:03 now that I was moving from the US. Initially, I wasn't happy about it. As I said, I was... I, I didn't want to move back. 25:09 Um, so it took me some time to really settle in, but then once you do, I started feeling very rooted to my culture, more apr- appreciation for Indian culture, Indian food, all of those things. Um, [lip smack] 25:20 so yes, I do think that there was this feeling of, of the way you eat in India, the way that you cook in India, the way that, um... 25:29 You know, it's all about, like, sharing a meal with your family, that sense of community. Um, [lip smack] uh, also, you know, I, I, I, I do have to highlight that there's a lot of help available in India, right? 25:41 Oh, yeah. Um, so I have to highlight that. It wouldn't be, it, it wouldn't be fair to say, like, I was doing things on my own. No, I wasn't, right? 25:47 Like, I was living, I was living by myself for some time, but then, um, during the pandemic, I moved back in with my parents. So you have your parents' support, you know, and, uh, you have extra help. 25:58 So have to co- have to account for those factors as well. Yeah. Mm-hmm. I wanna get back to the point of, so Vaishali runs a PR firm. Like, tell me about it. Mm. Like, I- Mm-hmm... why did you choose entrepreneurship? 26:11 Like, it's hard, it's tough, it's scary, it's... And you- Yeah. Yeah... there's almost no safety net. There's, like someone said, there's a joke people make that 26:19 people talk or say when you're, when you start a business, you have access to what are called FFF, which is friend, family, and fools. Like, and I, I don't think they mean fools in a bad way. Mm. 26:28 But as an immigrant, you don't have access to that because there are no fools to give you money. Mm. Your friends are like you. Basically, they're still trying to find their way, so they don't have money to give you. 26:37 Yeah. Your family's back home. Mm. They probably put together money to send you here, or they don't, they can't afford to... Like, so you literally don't have all that. Mm. So you have to do all that by yourself. 26:46 And so I'm just curious, like, how? Like, starting a business is terrifying, you know. So, but you went ahead to do that. Tell me more about that. Mm-hmm. Um, 26:57 you know, a few months ago, I did this little activity in my journal where I wanted to look back at my life and, and spot some patterns. Um, I don't think when you're in the thick of things, you think about patterns. 27:09 You're just, as you said, you're busy doing your things, right? So I wanted to take some time and think of it in, you know, hindsight. And so one of the patterns that emerged about me, 27:22 um, as I was going through different phases of my life is, uh, I think I have a tendency to, um, you know, dive headfirst into scary things. [chuckles] So, and I think this is, this was no different. 27:38 Um, not that, not that I want to say that, um, it doesn't feel scary or anything. Like, that's- Yeah... that's not what I'm getting at at all. But I think that, 27:51 um, the time that I've spent understanding myself and introspecting myself, I think that I am quite excited by things that would feel challenging. Um, so there was that aspect of it. 28:08 But when it came to the decision of what I was going to do, I don't think those were the emotions, um, motivating me at the time. Um, this was 2023. 28:20 So it's not that those were the mo- emotions motivating me at that time. Mm-hmm. 28:24 Now that I can look back, I, I can say that looking at my education when I was in India, you know, the way that I moved to the US, coming back to India, being an on-air journalist, like, in my early 20s, like, now I can say that it looks like I do a lot of, I like to do scary things and then figure my way around it as I go into it. 28:43 Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. But, uh, what led to entrepreneurship was, um, I did, I did have a job. I did get a job. 28:49 Um, even while I was doing my master's, I got a job, a corporate job here in, um, in T- in Toronto, and I started the job. But, um, as I mentioned, I was working as a PR consultant. 29:03 I already started working as a PR consultant when I was in India. That was in 2021. 29:07 So I'd already, um, experienced what it feels like to work for yourself because I had left my corporate job in India, did that for two and a half years, left it, started working as a consultant. 29:19 So consultant, it was just me. But, um, but then you st- get this taste, um, for how it feels like to work for yourself when it's just you. 29:29 Um, so when I went from that to getting a job and then doing that job, I realized that, um, I found that to be difficult. 29:41 [chuckles] I found that to be scarier, uh, and more difficult on a daily basis. Like, the more I would do it, the more I would just feel... I could feel it in my head and in my body that this is not for me. Um, 29:58 and I don't think it was in an egoistical way, egotistical way where it was like, um, you know, "This is not for me." No, I think it was more about, like, an understanding of yourself. 30:07 I think I had understood by that time that autonomy, um, autonomy is something that's very important to me. Um, flexibility around my schedule and things like that are very important to me. 30:20 So I'd under- I'd started understanding that. So I realized, well, if that's what I value, if that's what is important to me, um, you know, different things can be important to different people. Like, some... 30:32 Uh, uh, or I think different-Contrasting things can also be important to you in different degrees, right? Yeah. 30:38 When I say autonomy and flexibility over my schedule is important to me, doesn't mean that structure is not important to me. Yeah. 30:45 However, you know, there's a certain degree of this and there's a certain degree of that, and if I had to rank the top three things that are important to me, well, autonomy and, um, you know, like flexibility mattered. 30:58 So I realized if that's what I want, and if I want to have a happy work life, and if I want to have a content work life where I'm not kind of sad every single day, then I need to do something about it. 31:09 Um, so I-- so my solution was, well, I did it once when I was in India. I started working as a consultant. What can I do to do that again? So my thinking was not straight off, let me start a business. Oh, interesting. 31:23 No, my thinking was like, okay, what can I do to fulfill these strong feelings that I'm having about wanting autonomy, wanting control over my schedule? What can I do to fulfill that? 31:35 If I've already done it, I can potentially find a way around it again. Mm-hmm. So that's how it started. 31:41 It was like a small steps kind of a thing, and it, um, you know, it, it went up from there, and then in 2024 I reached a stage where I realized I can, I can do this. I, I, I'd gotten my PR. 31:55 Uh, so I told myself, actually, it was a condition. 31:56 I told myself that if I get my PR, I have to take this to the next level, and I have to, um, you know, move into, um, a more like business agency, PR firm kind of setup. And, [lips smack] 32:12 and I, um, and I got my PR. [laughs] I thought that it would take longer. I got my PR, so I had to fulfill the promise that I made to myself, right? And, um, and that's how that happened. 32:26 [laughs] Has it been-- like, has it, like, has it happened as you thought it would happen from a, from goals point of view, but most importantly for me, from a mental point of view? 32:38 'Cause I think the biggest thing about trying to do your own thing, especially as an immigrant who's trying to find their way in the country, is just all the doubts and the, you know, the mental battle you have to kind of deal with. 32:49 And I think I'm very interested- Mm-hmm... in how you've managed that, you know? I mean, I still deal with it. [laughs] So I don't know if I can confidently say that I have managed it, done and dusted. 33:03 No, I, I deal with it every day. [laughs] Um, you know, there's something or the other. There's so much, um, that you have to talk yourself through. There's so much self-doubt. There's so much, um, lack of confidence. 33:18 Um, you know, there's, there are days when you are like, "Oh, I'm alone in this." Right? Like, um, your friends aren't doing similar things. Yeah. 33:31 Um, you know, I've, I've, I've now tried to create a network where I'm surrounded by other founders and other business owners so I can talk through my challenges with them and listen to theirs. 33:43 Um, but yes, it's, it's, it's mentally very-- it's, uh, it does test you on a mental level, um, a lot. It is also, um... Something I realized recently is it's also very isolating because I, for example, work from home. 34:00 Uh, you know, I think that can be anyone who works from home, but in my case, like, I'm not meeting people on a daily basis, which is why I have to make extra efforts to meet people. Um, 34:11 so all of those things combined, like the isolation, the self-doubt, the lack of self-confidence, those things can, uh, really affect you mentally and emotionally, and, um, that's something that happens to me, and I have to, I have to deal with it. 34:27 Um, but also I think, um, also I think it'll-- doing this, like, you know, being, um, being an entrepreneur also, like, teaches you, also- Mm-hmm... 34:39 teaches you how to do all of those things, even when you're alone sometimes. So, um, I never thought I, I would be able to manage or deal with any of this, but, um, you know, I think there's, uh, 34:52 something that, that pushes you, forces you, uh, whatever you wanna call it. Some days it's not the same as other days, and, and you learn. Yeah. And I'm, I'm so, um, early into this journey- Mm-hmm... 35:05 so I also have to remember, like, there's so much more to come. Right? Yeah. There's so much learning challenges, like so much more to come. 35:14 But hopefully once you do the same thing again and again and again, you can rewire some of the, some of the ways in which you think and how we've learned to, like, program our mind. 35:25 You know, I've-- I'm learning that you can, you can tell yourself certain different things, and you can try to change from there. So- Yeah... daily practice. Yeah. [laughs] Oh, oh. 35:39 Before we get to the book of questions, I have two more questions for you. Yeah. Which is, what do you know now that you wish you had known on day one in Canada? Um, it's gonna sound like the most clichéd thing ever. 35:56 That's okay. But, mm, I wanna say, like, everything's gonna be okay. [laughs] And also, yeah- That's not cliché. That, 'cause that's- Really? That i- yeah, because... So here's why I say it's not cliché. Yeah. 36:12 People say it's cliché, but they can't do that. Hmm. Let me know. So people say, "Oh, it's cliché," but mentally they don't know- Uh-huh... they can't process that because- True... 36:22 yeah, so it's like, "Oh, it's cliché," but really you really can't, y- your, your mind- Mm-hmm... can't fully comprehend it. Mm-hmm. "Oh, everything's gonna be okay." Yeah. No, you're- [laughs]... you're freaking out. 36:34 You're- That's true... you're anxious. Like, so-I feel like people throw the word cliche around so much that we, we don't really know what it is. It's not a-- that's not cliche at all. That's so true. It's not at all. 36:46 I, I think saying it is cliche, but people, for people to actually experience it is not a cliche [chuckles]. Yeah, it's not cliche. Yeah. It's, it's so hard to experience that. 36:54 And, and when I am in the-- when I'm in the thick of a challenge or a problem or anxiety, I can't tell myself that everything's gonna be okay. It's gonna be okay. Like, no. Yeah. Yeah. You're panicky. Yeah. 37:03 You're, you're, you're anxious. You're worried. You're like sh- Yeah. Yeah. And, and I'm, and I'm trying to... Every time you experience it, I think it goes, uh, it gets better. 37:14 But I also wanna say one more thing, uh, besides everything is going to be okay, is that, um, is that, like, something I wish I did more, and I'm learning it a daily basis, is, like, give yourself more credit. 37:26 Like, I understand that there are so many people who are immigrants. 37:30 There are so many people who move, uh, from their homeland to a different place, either for more opportunity, either for love, either for searching their identity, or whatever the reason is. 37:41 But, um, it's already a big, it's already a big deal. This is already a big deal. 37:48 The fact that you decided to do that, and you came here or wherever, um, and now you're going to kind of uproot your life and restart, and it comes with, like, so much, like, paperwork and moving and this and that. 38:00 Um, like, give yourself more credit. Like, I wish I gave myself more credit, you know? Um, my, my partner and my friends and some people in my life have taught me that. Like, you need to give yourself more credit. 38:12 Like, the reason that a lot of self-doubt and lack of self-confidence comes in is because we are living our lives, so we don't see it from an outside perspective. We think whatever we have done is so normal. Yeah. 38:23 Like, everybody does it. Everybody applies for a PR, and then- Yeah... X percent of people get a PR, and- Yeah... you know, so many people move to Canada, and so many people do this, and... But no. Yeah. 38:32 It's everything that you've already done, like, credit where credit is due. I need to do that to myself. You need to do that to people around you. But most, more importantly, to yourself. 38:42 Like, give yourself credit, and, um, that's what I wish I knew when I came here. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that's true. Give yourself some grace. Like, give yourself some grace. Yeah. Yeah. 38:53 And then I want you to finish this sentence: The thing about being an immigrant that nobody talks about is... Hmm. That nobody talks about. Um, let's see. 39:12 [sighs] I think, uh, it might, it might be, like, a longer convoluted answer, but I think that what nobody talks about is, um, we ta- we all talk about this, like, lack of sense of belonging. 39:28 Like, you're, you'll never fully belong. You'll never fully belong in Canada, and you will never fully belong in India, uh, wherever, you know, people come from. Um, and everybody talks about that. 39:39 But I think what nobody talks about is how normal that is. It's... I don't think that you're supposed to just belong to one place, and I don't think that you will ever achieve that in just one place. 39:54 There are days when I'm in Canada where I am dreaming about, you know, "Oh, what if I lived in India?" And then when I'm in India, I'm looking at when my flight back to Toronto is [chuckles]. You know? So it's... 40:05 I do want to say that this kind of in-betweenness, as you said, I think it's, um, I think it's okay. Like, it's not important to always chase a sense of belonging. It's important to create a community where you are. 40:18 It's important to like where you live, right? But I think, um... You know, I was at, I was at, like, a networking thing, and somebody asked, somebody asked me that, um, "How do you like, you know, running a business?" 40:33 And I said, "I mostly love it. I mostly love it." And then so this person said, "Oh, like most things in life." And I was like, "That's actually such a great way of looking at it." 40:44 You cannot completely love or like anything. I think you can only mostly like things. And so it's okay to mostly feel a sense of belonging, and it's okay to mostly, um, be in between. I think it's okay. 41:00 Like, I, there's so much pressure on, like, want- to, on finding ways to belong. I think it's okay if, if you don't, um, succumb to that pressure. I think it's okay. Yeah. 41:12 [chuckles] That's a really good- That's what I would say. That's a really good answer. Now, the book of questions. The book of questions. So between one and 291, one number. One and 291? Yes. Just pick one number. 41:27 Oh my God. Okay, that's, like, a lot of numbers. Um, I am going to pick 255 [both chuckling] just randomly. Oh, gosh. Um... [chuckles] Oh, this is, this is-- I feel like you've answered this a bit. 41:45 Okay. Would you, would you rather- Do you want me to pick a different one? No, no, no. We- Okay... I think we should still answer it, yeah. Okay. Would you rather live nearer to your parents or farther away from them? 41:54 What about your brothers, sisters, or grown children? Uh, would I rather live near- Would you nearer to your parents or farther away from them? Mm-hmm. 42:05 And what about your brothers, your sisters, or grown kids, your grown children? Yeah. I would definitely rather live near them. Definitely. I don't even think... That's not a question in my head. However- [chuckles] 42:21 You're in Canada. [chuckles] However, I, I am not in a situation where I am doing that. So, uh, would I rather? Sure. 42:29 Um, and maybe that's something I do later in life, and maybe right now I am here, and I get to see them a few times a year. Um, also remembering that my family is also my partner whom I live with, right? 42:42 So I know the question was parents and siblings, um, but also I'm building a family here. So, um, so 100% near them, and I hope I can do that in the future. 42:51 Another part of, another, um, reason to pursue entrepreneurship and having all of that flexibility over my schedule also was I don't ever want anyone else deciding when I, when I get to travel home. 43:02 I wanna be able to travel whenever I want, so... And, and I do that. I, I try to stick to that. So, yeah. [chuckles] Cool. Thank you so much for coming on the podcast. This was amazing. 43:14 As always, everyone, please follow us on social. Follow us on... We're on Beehive now, you know. The new, the website, thenewcomerspod.com. And then you get the podcast on Spotify. 43:23 Anywhere you get your podcasts, you can find us there. Please like, share, comment. Ask another question. If you have a question for Vaishali, send it, I'll send it to her. She'll probably answer you. 43:32 Uh, but yeah, thank you again, and thank you, Vaishali, for doing this. [outro jingle]
