Transcript 0:00 My first night I thought like, this definitely has to be the biggest mistake of my life. [laughing] Uh, clearly because I landed in winter, and I remember, like, landing, 0:13 and I was looking at the roofs, and everything was just white. And it had no beauty to it, bro. Like, no beauty to it. [laughing] So I'm like, this definitely has to be like the... Like, what is this place? 0:26 Is it like some village or something? You know, but on landing, it takes a whole different shape. 0:33 [upbeat music] Have you ever wondered what it's like to leave behind every single thing you know and start a new life in a foreign country? From my experience, it can be a struggle. 0:48 On the Newcomers Podcast, I'll be sharing my story, as well as the stories of other immigrants. We'll be talking about the joys and struggles of starting afresh. 0:57 My name is Dozie, and I'm looking forward to being your host. [upbeat music] So today, we're talking to Dapo Jenya, who's been in Canada for the past three, four years. Is it three or four now? Three years now. Oh, wow. 1:13 The time flies. And so today we'll be talking about everything about settling in and all he has learned so far. Thank you for joining us, Dapo. 1:20 Like, I guess we can just start off with, you know, just introduce yourself, like, a bit. Like a short one. Not too long, I guess. [chuckles] Um, me, Dapo, like you said, um, three years in Canada. 1:32 I came in just before COVID hit and changed the whole world. And- [chuckles] Um, retired Nigerian almost. Almost retired Nigerian. [chuckles] Um, yeah, that's me. That's me really. Yeah. Awesome. 1:50 Awesome. Awesome. I'm gonna come back to the retired Nigerian bit in a while, in a bit. Um, but I think I'll just kind of-- I'll start off with just asking the-- I call this the first question. 2:02 Like, you know-- And you-- because you actually came in at a very interesting time, just before COVID started. 2:07 So it'd be good to just talk about, like, like, what was the first night like when you moved from Nigeria, when you landed here? 2:15 My, my first night I thought like, this, this definitely has to be the biggest mistake of my life. [chuckles] Uh, clearly because I landed in winter, and I, I, I'd been in Dubai for a bit before actually coming here. 2:31 I was visiting Dubai for quite a bit before w-we actually flew in as a family. And I remember, like, landing, and I was looking at the roofs, and everything was just white. And it had no beauty to it, bro. 2:48 Like, no beauty to it. [chuckles] So I'm like, this definitely has to be like the... Like, what is this place? Is it like some village or something? You know, but on landing, it takes a whole different shape. 2:59 Like, just beneath all of that snow cape is a different scene entirely, you know. So, um, that first night was, it was a lot. I remember I visited with my sisters, and we just had a little drinks, ate. 3:15 They welcomed me and the family. And it was a lot that I was trying to take in. W-I couldn't drink the water. [laughing] Imagine- Why? [laughing] I couldn't drink the water. In Lagos, boy, I couldn't drink the water. 3:29 I don't know what it was. It just... It, you know, like, sometimes you just get u-used to, like, Lagos and Nigeria in such a way that y-you don't know, it's the little things that hit you. 3:41 Like, I-I've been in several places, but this was the first time that I got to a place and I'm like, "Yo, the water tastes different." Well, water tastes different everywhere. [laughing] And you adapt. 3:53 But this one, like, on the first day, I'm like, "Ah. Bring the juice or bring, uh, bring something else." [laughing] Not this. But, um, so far it's been good, to be honest. It's been good. Yeah. 4:06 But that was my first night. Cool. Um, yeah. That was my first night. Yeah. And did you-- Just curious, did you still feel that same way, like, after the first week? 4:16 Like in after one week of just moving around, did you still have that feeling of, what the heck, this is the biggest mistake I've made in my life or something? So for me, there was a long hangover. 4:31 I think for my family, they had zero hangover. So before I left Nigeria, I was kinda like building a brand. 4:38 I was trying to settle my business the way-- We were doing a few things and, you know, it looked like we were going somewhere with it. So a lot of my hangover stemmed from that. I, I kept feeling like 4:50 I've left things half done, right? So I, I didn't really... Like, a lot of people already have their minds made up before they make the journey. For me, it was more like we're gonna test the waters. 5:05 But in that hangover, again, like I said, I came in just before COVID, and a few months later, the, the world was on lockdown. Uh, the good thing with that, though, was it allowed me to cold turkey, [chuckles] 5:20 if I can use that word. So I, I literally cold turkey Nigeria out of my system. In, like, that hangover, I had to-- I was here, and I was like, "You know what? You're missing out on all the positives that is right here. 5:36 You, you're not taking it all in. You've been focused on your past, you know. Like, just look around." Like, in terms of like beauty, like beauty and everything, like everywhere was beautiful. 5:47 Like, you know, it, it was a nice-- It's a nice burgeoning city that I'm in. So in that regard, it looked like it was happening. 5:57 But because of how I left Nigeria, for me in particular, it was like, you need to go back or now you cannot go back. Like, everywhere is on lockdown, right? So-Can you take stock? 6:09 So in during my quaternity, I took stock like, this Nigeria you keep hammering about, like, yo, and I thought, you know, you did business analysis and stuff like that. 6:21 You just analyze this stuff and tell yourself the truth. And I think it was that point that I was like, you know what? I'm not-- I mean, I miss community, I miss food and things like that hanging out, 6:36 but I'm not missing out in terms of my personal development, in terms of growth, which was very, very important to me at the time, so. Okay. My family, like, like, like kids, you're not... 6:47 They-- Like I said, I was the only one home brewer. They came in, and the next thing they're like, "Well, we're here now, can we stay?" 6:55 [laughing] Do, do you, do you think like just from thinking about the other people you know around you who have settled in, do you think that's the same thing that happens to them, you know, just having the kids just come in and just go with the flow, and then the adults, especially those of us who spent quite a while in our home countries before coming out, spend-- take some time just trying to adjust, you know, saying, "Did I make, did I make the right move?" 7:23 Yeah. I, I think definitely, like, there are a lot of pressures on, on adults. Um, the more you, you start to build in Nigeria, the less nimble you are. 7:38 I used to be a very nimble person, in my mind at least, you know. But the moment you get married, you start having kids, you're not as nimble. You know, like you, you wanna move, but, um, it's not so easy. 7:53 So you, you worry. All the, all the anxiety and tension comes mainly from, from that, right? Uh, so I think a lot of people arrive and-- 8:04 I mean, some are already made up on their minds that we're going here, uh, and they're settled in that, but it still doesn't take away the initial tension of who are my first set of friends gonna be? Like, 8:17 where is my church gonna be for those who do that? Like, for those who play soccer, where are my f- guys that I'm going to play soccer with? By Friday night, there's no-- Where's the sweet spot, right? 8:28 [laughing] There's so many questions and very little answers, you know. And when you're arriving in Canada, for example, or in Calgary, Canada, where I'm at, uh, I don't think it's-- It's not London, UK. 8:43 'Cause London, UK, I feel like you can almost land in London, UK, and you don't miss a beat. Like, it's almost like you just trans-- It's like you're moving from one nightclub at the island to another one just across. 8:55 It's like you don't miss anything. But when you come to Calgary, Canada, when I arrived, and I can imagine for those that have arrived like ten years before me. So you're like, "Wait a minute. What's going on? 9:07 Where, where, where are all the things I'm used to?" [laughs] So, so, but the kids, the kids are so like, um, I'm looking for the right word, but I feel like the kids are so-- It's like them living their dreams. 9:24 I hate to say that, but it's like them living their dreams because the moment they arrive, it's like you just put them in like a leisure park. 9:36 And who is a five year old, six year old, nine year old, or ten that is gonna get to be in a leisure park and be like, "It's time to go home"? They're, they're having fun. They, they're okay. [laughs] I, I think as 9:53 many Nigerians, and I hate to use this word again, I think that in many cases we also have or many newcomers to new places, there's Stockholms. 10:09 Stockholm syndrome that, [laughs] that we, we hold on to, you know. 10:14 Like, uh, and it's not just about because of the negative stuff that we have in some of the places that we come from, it's also because, like, it's just like what we've gotten used to. So just, um, rediscovering taste 10:29 in a new way and finding ourselves can be a bit challenging. But I think that, uh, once you open up your mind and tell yourself, I, I wanna build a future anew, then it's easy. 10:47 People have been moving around for- Yeah... for centuries. Humans are-- Yeah. We've been moving around for centuries. Like, I went to a place in Banff this summer of my first year. It's like this 11:01 mountainous region here that, uh, is always snow-capped even during summer and everything. It's very beautiful, you know. 11:09 And they have, like, all these lakes that surround the place, and they have hills around it, and people live there. And they're showing me stuff of people who lived here two hundred years ago. 11:18 Like, I'm arriving there, I'm well layered, well covered. I, I don't feel the cold and all of it, but I'm thinking like, yo, a hundred and fifty years ago, some guy got up from wherever he was 11:34 and walked all the way here, passed through all these lakes and stuff, and climbed these hills, and settled here. Like, yo, I need that brand of whatever igbo I show you. It's the-- They will take it. 11:49 [laughing] 'Cause I don't know how you do that. So it's not-- When you think like that, then you realize that, man, this is not hard. This is not really hard. Those guys had it rough. This is not hard at all. Yeah. Yeah. 12:02 Yeah. It's the same. Things are pretty much easier now. 12:07 I mean, just we still have our things we have to deal with now, but I feel like the world's a bit, the world's a bit more interesting and more easier to navigate than it was two hundred, two hundred years ago.Just staying on topic of, um, the fear of starting over. 12:21 Just-let's talk about the kids. Like, how is it for the kids settling in Australia, the much older ones, um, you know, 'cause they feel like different curriculum, d-different culture. 12:34 I mean, kids will be kids, and they will just play and stuff. So... Definitely had it. Um, we had two girls. Um, the older one, I would say had a bit of a challenge, like coming in. So, f-um, first thing is you, 12:53 you find out that everything you've done, you need to reset, basically. Um, 'cause they came in at six and four, and I think school starts here at five, so they had to go back like one or two grades, 13:08 um, just because that's how school is set up here. Like back, back in Nigeria, for example, kids go to school once they're ready for them to go. Yeah. Like once they're one or two, they start going somewhere. 13:20 They leave home. Yeah. Right? But here, if they're not five, independent, and able to tie the lace on their shoes, remove their shoes, remove their jackets and stuff, no, you stay at home. You stay at home. 13:32 So it's, it's different from that perspective. The kids are way more independent. The kids here are way more independent in terms of how to live. 13:42 So that was something that my kids had to kind of adjust to when they came in, particularly the older one. Uh, also making new friends. 13:53 And in terms of like culture, right, and that ugly word race, um, we come from a place that is rather monotone. Like everyone looks the same. And, and then we, we drop in you like a... It's not even duotone. 14:10 It's, it's multitone. [laughing] You know, like if we drop- Yeah. -these girls, they're six years old and four, and we drop you in this place like, "Yo, everybody looks different." They almost even sound different. 14:23 In fact, they sound different 'cause there are people from all over. Like- Yeah. -you're talking to like the Russian who's just moved here, um, someone from Philippines, India. Think of it, anywhere. Switzerland. 14:35 Everybody shows up, right? So-- And they're, they're dealing with all of this, and they're trying to find themselves as well. So that part is-- can be challenging for the kids when they show up. 14:48 So-- But the key, I think, is to quickly latch on as a parent. Like you, you wanna be on top of these things. You want to know that these things are happening even before like they bring it to you, right? 15:02 So you can help them navigate that whole process. Every day is a, it's a new, it's a new uncovering, I would say. [chuckles] Also, like the, the style of instruction, 15:20 the teaching- Mm-hmm. -is a major difference. Like- Mm. -we instruct. Like, you know, back home, we, we instruct, and you either keep up or you keep up. 15:37 [laughs] Here, here, here it's almost like we let you discover. Yeah. We allow you your discovery time. So for someone who is be-- who's been so used to being told what to do, 15:56 to get into an environment where you're told that you should know what you should do, they're very two extremes. Like, you know- Yeah. -it takes-- This takes a lot of self-discipline. 16:11 Back home, the discipline you will get, you will be given. Mm-hmm. Whether you like it- Mm-hmm. -or not. [laughs] This, you will have to, 16:20 you will have to figure out how to discipline yourself and know that, okay, this is time for work, and I need to do what I need to. Yeah. Even as adults at the workplace- Yeah. 16:30 -it's, it's a major shift that happens like, um... [laughs] Yeah. That's, that's interesting. I-I think just, um, well, still staying on the kids, and so- Yeah. 16:43 -like, can you tell me like what's the biggest difference for you in terms of parenting now and parenting when you were in Nigeria? Oh, parenting in Nigeria, like j-- the kids are, the kids are guarded. 16:56 Like, they, like I said, from being a very monotone society, like we, we all kinda like move like one-- not necessarily say we're moving in one direction, but, you know, you can pretty much map out 17:12 like their experiences on a daily basis. Like I could, I could leave my kids with friends back-- and their kids back home, and I could imagine what their experiences and conversations would be. 17:29 Here, it's-- can be very different. Depending on who and what day that interaction is happening, it can takes too many dimensions. Um, you know, and there's a lot to uncover. 17:45 There's also a lot to, um... There's a lot of measured conversations, too, you know. So like, especially in this day and age. Like back home, you could pretty much say anything to anyone, and it would be a joke. 18:03 Yeah. Like, you have to teach your kids early, like, um, you don't wanna, you don't wanna abuse people in your interactions. Yeah. It's not acceptable behavior, you know. So that-that's something that comes up. 18:15 I mean, it comes up with, um, in every society in one way or the other. But-It's more pronounced here because, like, everyone is slightly different. Yeah. So, like, our reaction to conversations can be very different. 18:31 Yeah. Even our understanding of the language that we all use can be very different. You, you understand? Like, so everybody has, like, their various nuances and things like that, that they have. Mm-hmm. 18:44 So just navigating that can be a bit of a, uh, a challenge. So I think that those are some of the conversations that we've had to, uh, have a, um... I mean, I remember we started talking about-- Like, 19:02 I didn't think I would have sex education with my kids- [chuckles] -for four or five. Like, I didn't think I would-- like, we would ever broach that subject. 19:14 But we got here, and the conversation had to happen, like, pretty fast. Yeah. Just to be aware. And y-we having that conversation, and I'm realizing that I didn't get this kind of conversation growing up. Yeah. 19:30 I didn't, I didn't-- And even if I ever did, it would have been a one-time conversation. Like, "You know what you should do, boy." [chuckles] "And you should do what you should do." That's it. 19:41 But I can see that this is an ongoing conversation that needs to be had every time. Like, we have to take refreshers just because there's a lot happening on the outside. Yeah. So, um, this makes you more in tune. 20:01 Like, you're more in tune to whatever is happening with the k-- Well, I hope that you're more in tune to whatever is happening with the kids, um, because a lot is, a lot is happening, and they're sponges, right? 20:14 So they- Yeah. -they're soaking all of-- they're soaking all of it. Yeah. So if there isn't some form of guidance or some of-- some form of preparation for them, then I don't know what the results to that would be. 20:27 [chuckles] But I know that at least-- I know that I'm doing so much to prepare, uh, to prepare them and to have conversations with them that ordinarily I don't think I would have to have. 20:40 Like, back, back home, I would imagine that just, like, the social structures that we have, like maybe they go to school or they go to church or even in their conversations with their friends, 20:54 they can figure out the values that are acceptable societal values for them to take on. But here, there's so much. There's so much liberty also, right? So there's so much that is happening. 21:11 So you wanna guide them to be able to make their own decisions, right? But you also wanna be-- Let them start from a position of the familiar, and then maybe they can find something else or whatever it is. 21:26 I don't know if I explained or if I... No, I, I, I think I like- Question in particular, but- Yeah. I think it, it was really a question. It's more of a perspective. 21:36 I don't know if there's an-- I don't know if there's a real answer to it. I think it's more of, like, every parent has their perspective. At least that's how I look at it. 21:44 And then you just mold your kids around the perspective you have. And I was just gonna ask- Right. -building on that question that, you think the function-- 'cause you, you mentioned something about independence. 21:54 Socie-- Like, I feel like- Yeah. -social structure here is very built around independence from a very early age. Yeah. 22:01 And it continues even to how, as a kid, as a child grows older, and how the society sets you up as you grow older. And I just wonder if 22:11 you think that, you know, when you talk about having those conversations earlier here than if you're in Nigeria, whether all, all those things stem from how the social structure is set up, and y-you ex-- you expect that you-- or you sort of know somehow that, look, I need to start having these conversations early or else because there's so much independence within the structure, and it encourages the child to be independent, then that conversation is taken away from you because the society kind of encourages the child to, you know, experience that by yourself or find, find your, find your answer, and then you now, you-- Or else so you have to get in there early or else it's out of your control. 22:47 Like, so many things. Like, I mean, so I got married just as I was hitting my thirties. That was when I got married. Um, so this is personal experience now. Okay. 23:01 But I noticed that almost all my peers that I went to high school with that were-- that left after high school to study abroad or... I noticed that a significant number or a signi-significant percentage, 23:16 for example, got married by their mid-twenties, right? A-and I'm talking more of the, the, the guys now. Yeah. Yeah. 23:28 And I was back in Nigeria, and I don't know whether I'm right or if my numbers are right, but I f-- It almost felt impossible for me to even have considered getting married at twenty-five. Yeah. 23:45 And so, like, one of my kids are like- Same here. Same here. [chuckles] Yeah. So, like, one of my kids are, like, six, eight, thereabout. Their kids are done with high school right now. They're going to uni, right? 23:58 Because they started that journey early. Then it didn't make sense to me. Now it does. Hmm. Because then I wasn't living to- Yeah. I'd lived abroad, but I, you know, went back to Nigeria. 24:12 But now because I'm living permanently, it kind of makes sense to me. I see why they had to get married at that time. Because technically the kids are-Technically, the kids are like from age eighteen, 24:29 they are ready. They're ready to live their lives. Yeah. Yeah. At fifteen, independence already starts. They start earning cash. Yeah. At fifteen, fourteen, there are a significant number of kids that can, 24:47 uh, live on their own, right? At fifteen. Why? Because you then make a decision to, am I doing anything after high school or am I going for university? If you're not-- 25:01 Well, what it means is that at sixteen, you're out of your parents' home. You're going either to university or you're working actively to say, "I can earn enough money, I can stay on my own." Mm-hmm. 25:11 But you still have that latitude between sixteen and eighteen to fully make that decision on what you wanna do. But what is clear is that at eighteen, you become a decision-making being. You're like the CEO of your life. 25:25 You're giving directions. Like, I have, like, older people in my peer group back home that cannot make decisions on their own. They have to deflect to their parents. Here, you-- the kids are gonna... 25:41 I mean, like, that-- They come back to you for referencing, but you cannot be the one making the decisions anymore. And that starts early. Yeah. 25:51 You know, like, if a child cannot go to school until they know how to tie a shoelace by themselves, and, you know, because they, they go to school, they're layered up. They have, like, three, four sets of clothing on. 26:05 They have to sit for e-- for classes. They have to first literally almost undress and hang all of them- Mm-hmm. -and then now sit for instruction. 26:14 And then when they're done with that, they wanna go out on break time, they have to dress up again. You know? Like it-- The teacher is not gonna chaperone, like, twenty-five kids. Yeah. Yeah. 26:26 During a fifteen-minute break time to be like, "Oh, go layer up. Go wear your shoes or change into your boots." They're not gonna do that. So the kids start learning all of this stuff at a very early age. 26:41 You go to the-- you go to, like, the super-- to the store, right? The neighborhood store. 26:48 And whereas everybody everywhere has, like, a cart that you push and you can do your shopping, they have carts for kids to shop. 27:02 It's, it's a very little thing, you know, but you kinda see, like, the kids have been trained to shop from age five. Like, they're pushing their cart. [laughs] The parents are pushing. 27:15 Then the, the five-year-old is pushing his own, he's-- And they're thinking like, "Okay, I want bananas." They drop it in there. "I want chips." [laughs] They drop in. 27:26 [laughs] And some k- some parents will go as far as saying, "You have an allowance. This is what you can buy. This is the amount of sweets you can buy. Um- Mm-hmm. "You cannot-- You have to buy some natural foods." 27:38 And you know, they-- If you go close, you see a lot of this stuff. And you start thinking, man, no, when I went shopping with my mom- [laughs] -I was just miserable throughout. Got the gist. 27:52 [laughs] Like, you know, I, I was just supposed to be miserable, but not show it. You know, the only time I was excited was when I realized, okay, she's got me something, you know? 28:03 But here the kids are being taught to, like, do their shopping. Like, I go into the mall to do groceries. I go into the store to do groceries recently. I see some kids, they may be, like, twelve. There are three of them, 28:17 maybe, like, between, like, twelve ranging to about fifteen. They were all by themselves, and they were shopping for their family or maybe for themselves 'cause they had, like, two carts that they were pushing. 28:28 You know, like, I don't know of any twelve-year-olds that is not disadvantaged, that has to think about, I need to go and learn how to shop. And that's a major life skill, right? 28:43 It, it is a life surviving skill, I think. Again, life hits you faster. Yeah, it is. It is. And it probably also means that if you do the numbers 29:00 in an economic way, it probably means that the human is more productive for a longer period of time. 29:10 Because if you start life at eighteen and you finish at sixty-five, as against someone that starts life at twenty-five and finishes at sixty or sixty-five, you can see who is gonna be more productive. Yeah. 29:27 Cool. Or who has to do more to be as productive. Um, so that was just really good. Um- I'm going to-- To be-- I'm going to insight into my thoughts there. Sorry about that. [laughs] Totally agree with you. No, no, no. 29:41 That's, that's, that's, that's, that's really, that's really fair. I mean, it's... That's really good, and I totally agree because 29:49 the-- It's a small thing, but that-- It, it, it, it reminds me of, I think it was James Clear that has this quote about one percent every day kind of comes out to-- It's not, it's not actually-- It compounds, and by the end of the year, the difference is not one percent. 30:04 Yeah. The difference is literally way, way over one percent. Yeah. And I feel like it's the small, small things- Yeah. -they all come together, and then when the kid is all grown up, it's a pretty different kid. 30:13 And then it just kind of going back to how I started the conversation. 30:16 I think it also shows in how you, you now have to decide that when you look at all those things, you have to decide early that, okay, I need to play my part early and get into these conversations early. 30:27 Sex education- Yeah. -working hard, delayed gratification, all those conversations. 30:31 You start it early because if you don'tThe kid is out of your house be- but the kid is really on their own by the time they're fifteen, sixteen. Yeah. 30:38 And if you haven't done it by then, then, uh, you're playing a losing game ab- at that point in time. They're now dealing with full society at that point in time. Yeah. Remember how like, 30:50 like when we, we read about like all these business success stories that are like, oh, they, they kinda like they left Harvard, and then they went to go and do a startup, and then it blew up. It's a multi-billion. And 31:09 it's inconceivable because they're eighteen years old, nineteen years old. They're deciding to leave one of the most prestigious institutions on the face of the earth- [laughs] -to go and pursue their own ideas. 31:24 Like, no, this is an institution that a father like me paid for. Then the child decide- [laughs] 31:33 -that I have found a passion, or I have found an idea, or a startup, or something, and I feel like I need to go do that. [laughs] I mean, it-- we all celebrate the success of it, but we don't realize the kind of 31:52 independent mindedness that is required from a very early age for someone to be able to make that decision at that time, right? 'Cause they're not gonna just wake up and decide at eighteen that this is the path. 32:07 It's gonna be the character that they built based off of their habits over a decade long. So that's what manifests at that time. And those are just some of like, that's how fast life comes here. 32:24 It's how fast life comes here. Yeah. Yeah. It comes really fast. It comes really fast, man. Yeah. It comes really fast. Um, so at this point, I think, um, we've really had a really interesting conversation. 32:39 Thank you so much, Daps. This has been really good. Um, honestly, it's... 32:43 I mean, I had a lot of questions, but I felt like, like, I felt like we really had a really honest, unfiltered conversation about, you know, just settling and getting going here. 32:52 Um, so thank you everyone for dialing in and listening. Um, this was good. Thank you, Daps. Um, thank you for doing this. You're the first guest on the newcomers, so like- Oh, so it's not this. Yay. It's this. 33:05 [laughs] Thanks for having me. You know, like you're the first guest. Appreciate it. Yeah. Let me do a drum roll. Like, honestly, you're the first guest. [drum rolling] What? Stop. [laughs] All right, man. 33:20 Thank you so much. Thanks, bro. Appreciate it. Yeah. Have a good one. [laughs] Uh, yeah. Thanks, man. [outro jingle]
